i always just saw him as the dude that wants valeera buffed 24/7
half of the posts i see on the front page of discussions is just him saying “something something buff valeera something something”, this is one of the posts
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Brings a bad name to valeera players
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Lets not forget about the countless “Anti Fun” nerf threads. Saying something isn’t fun to fight against is pure perspective and should never have an validity or weight when considering to nerf a hero…but yet it happens countless times.
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If you judge a whole group of people by the actions of one, that’s your own problem
I don’t think anybody can prove they were “not fun for anyone”…
The number of players who ragequit due to feeding vs nova is likely much less than the number of people who really like nova and want to keep playing because of her. The game is bleeding old players and new players aren’t sticking around because of how much blizzard likes to gut the cool/fun heroes. There is no hipocrisy here, I believe there’s nothing wrong with making the QM scrubs leave if they make the game more fun for everyone else and more enticing to new players
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The
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So if you make their first experiences terrible with your ‘noob- / qmstomper’ Heroes, they won’t stick around…
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If they can play the fun heroes too they will enjoy it. It’s not like they’re in every game anyways and even a bad player would still be playing against a bad nova
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You ignore smurfs (ever growing problem) and the “mentor” system what the MM has, plus the low population which makes it hard for new players to play only with other new players.
They will face ppl better than them, and dying to a Hero with such big range as Nova with her untargetable trait will make them sick and leave.
And the hypocrisy is in that you constantly ask for buffs to the Heroes you like and play (tho my last information you gave is that you don’t even play the game nowadays), saying that the ppl who want them nerfed (or just not buffed) are “noobs” who should “gitgud” while you always make threads asking for nerfs to the Heroes which cause you trouble, claiming they’re “not fun” or “no skill/brain”…
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So are you trying to get everyone to dislike you or do you need a hug or something a pet on the hat and say “there there”
Its maybe meant a little offensive but the way your going here is not a good one. You can still turn it around
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Actually sometimes it should have weight when considering re-balancing a hero.
The devs consider it when they create the heroes.
They brought it up in a video talking about how old Kael’Thas who could instantly detonate Living Bombs didn’t give players any way to interact with it, but now that there’s a decent delay for players to spread out they don’t feel the need to nerf it as Kael’Thas’ opponents have time to do something about it (spread out, ability armor, healing, shields)
They said similar concerning Garrosh’ old pull on Q.
It’s not JUST about “fun”, it also concerns what options the opposing players have to do something about it, and whether it feels like something outside of the game or unintuitive like old stealth being somewhat dependent on graphical setting, or last hitting previously not instantly granting XP when globes were first introduced.
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I love this point right here because over the years when people have been non stop screaming about things being “unfun” the game has always had answers to the issues they were having.
“QM is unfun and needs balance”…uuummm go play draft then
“nooooooooo draft no fun”
“Hammer isn’t fun to play against”…Draft for dive
“buuuut mmaaana is qm we no have draft and draft no fun”
“Cho-Gal op and unfun”…please god just draft
“nooo he need nerf for QM cauzzz unfun”
Chromie, Diablo, you see what I am getting at here.
People use the term “unfun” but no ever takes a step back to ask what exactly is making it unfun. Also what isn’t fun for others might be for someone else. Its to much of a generalized term in my opinion. On top of that the majority of the time changes occur to quickly for players to adapt and turn the weakness into strengths.
That last part might be different now due to the 7 man crew that we have left on the dev team but the majority of changes that occurred to address the “unfun” issues were just to fast but that’s a point for another day.
I understand what you are getting at but Unfun and not balanced shouldn’t really share the same weight.
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Valeera neither makes plays (in any iteration) nor is hype. Hard pass.
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This post and these replies is so old news.
Its like, I’m reading something all over again, twice.
Crazy.
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It doesn’t require prove. It is common sense that people in Hots have different tastes. Not everybody wants to play melee assassins.
Based on what? Your intuition? You also need to factor in that heroes like Valeera, Nova and Genji are pubstomper heroes in Qm. So even if they are popular over there, you could make the case that this is due to them beeing highly effective in that kind of environment and not because the hero itself is fun to play.
This is nothing more but an opinion you present here. There is no prove for your thesis and it isn’t even well argued. You base the suffering of this game on something minor as fun heroes beeing nerfed, which in itself is completly up for debate, because there is no common ground in the community on what fun heroes are. I for example love playing Malthael and other bruisers, while others completly hate the role. It is absolutly fine and normal for people to have different opinion on what is fun in this game, which is why the fun argument has no value in trying to explain the decline of the playerbase, atleast not in this specific case.
The way most people play HotS is entirely wrong. And it made me think: In LoL, people know that they’re supposed to last hit minions, they know which roles go to which lanes, etc… but they’re just not that good at it (as in their microing skills). I remember back in my WC3 days, low ranked players knew the basic: Creep camps & get Items; get new tier units, etc… They just lacked the clicks/actions per minute or quick decision making.
But they had the basics…
In HotS, players don’t know about waveclear, they don’t know about killing archer minions, they don’t know about pushing lanes, they don’t know about push/objective priority, they don’t know that focusing the healer’s the worst focus choice at that moment, they don’t know that tanks offers food to the table for the assassins to feast, they don’t know what is a sololane, and the list goes on…
These are basics that, in some other games, people seem to understand even in the lowest ranks, just poor execution.
There’s a disparity that makes no sense.
Why? I’m not exactly sure. A big part of it is the advertised: “easy to pick up, hard to master” , which is so wrong. If it were so easy to pick up, people would “pick up” on the basics, but they don’t. That pick-up line makes people playing bad think they’re playing good because: “Hey, it should be easy to pick up, I must be doing it right.”
But then we have Youtube videos, like NotParadox and such. We have online build/playstyle posts. We have the Forums, we even still have commentated gameplay with Khaldor… How is it that players play the game, and not be curious about the game with a simple google search? Isn’t a game about fun and self-improvement?
How does someone play a game, and not care about it, that… makes no sense to me, regardless of how badly developed a game is. If a player thinks a game is badly developed, then they won’t look it up in the internet, but then why are they still playing it? Play a different game! And if you’re still having fun with a game that isn’t “good”, then why don’t you care about its community?
I’ve been asking some people in some HotS matches, and they don’t seem to have much of the basic knowledge most of the time. I ask if they know certain HotS Youtuber (don’t know I guess people prefer watching vids than reading comments), and nothing…
Sorry for the gigantic block. but I think THIS is why the game is withering, and the developers are just trying to hold onto these players who just want to aram in other modes by tailoring to their play. Because; “Hey, they’re a significant player-base.”
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I have to agree. I was absolutely terrible at this game until I started watching HGC and learning about MACRO.
This game needs a little bit better tutorials and maybe then they need to plug some youtubers that show learning content to help out.
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O no one reads those type of texts there’s a bullatin about it somewhere… I skipped to fallow suit. U guys kiilll me in rl first I chunk . Then I die. Then u core and rewarded with a short bus mount
Hammer is bad for the game.
Siege mode needs to be a temporary transformation like Molten Core or Dragon Form or Black Arrows if you want a low cooldown ability.
Any time your answer is “draft several hard counters for this one here” rather than “play differently with the heroes you have” there’s probably a problem.
Fun should have more weight than balance, in my opinion.
Rock-Paper-Scissors is very balanced, but the only part of it that is fun is trying to get into your opponent’s head and anticipate their move, which is something that can be done in any number of games that are more fun in their design.
Tick-Tac-Toe is a weirdly balanced game, where when both sides play perfectly it always ends in a draw, you can’t get more balanced than that. But one side clearly has an advantage at low levels, and the fun only exists when you don’t see or care about the imbalance, or when only one side knows how to play it well (and they just like crushing their opponent)
Balance isn’t always good or fun.
But having options does usually allow a game to be more fun, and can still create a form of balance simply by providing more possibilities than players can account for, there is no perfect form of play, so something could have been done differently.
This is why I hate the “draft a batter counter” argument, and prefer characters with low skill floors, and extremely high skill ceilings, typically with lower cooldowns so players have to/can make more of those decisions, and why I think there should be more structures and mercenary camps on the maps.
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I can tell you why I didn’t when I was new. I’m not sure it applies to anyone else, but it’s a reason.
I had never played a game like HotS ever before so I didn’t know what information applied to me or what anything in the game even was. I assumed learning a hero was the key part of the game, and all the other stuff was extra. I didn’t know about lane soaking or the little bubble in the wizard minions or camps or strategies. I thought the only reason you’d stay in a lane is to prevent the little dudes from killing your happy buildings. It didn’t even occur to me that it could be something else.
It seemed like all the stuff I’d read about the game would be something for ranked players or pros. Why would all that complex stuff apply to a new player, anyway, I thought.
I ended up learning from people I met in the game who thought I played well and adopted me into their team. They’d call out stuff and I saw what worked and what didn’t, and you can learn a lot about a hero by how the other team plays theirs, if they are indeed successful at it.
The only effective way to quickly teach a new player that there is more to the game is to introduce some sort of follow-up tutorial, that once you understand the general concept of the game and the controls, you can take and learn the intricacies of the game that are of similar importance.
Since that hasn’t yet been introduced, it’d be nice if current players could give out tips to each other in the game to encourage better play from those who might be new. Obviously, some people will take this as an insult, but I’ve found if you approach them in a friendly manner, they tend to be receptive.
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I think your right, and I don’t think new players are at any fault. The problem is I really think there’s this saturation of players, who aren’t new anymore, but play the game… actually worse than new players. They call out the new players for: “Not going to the objective when their whole team is dead,” “Not killing a certain Hero at a dangerous moment,” “Pressuring the tank instead of the healer.” They praise for “worfit kills” and moments of never-ending objective killing seesaws.
I want to know about those players. When someone tells them something new/different, do they ever second-guess themselves? Or is it that the next game they play focusing the healer ends up a win leads them to think that that’s the reason why?
Personally, I’d say you were more lucky than not, as a previously new player, to meet such players. Because the more common HotS knowledge is: team-fight, team-fight, team-fight, go go go… oops, GG.
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The game isn’t withering away.
Also, the answer to “why can’t my favorite hero be overpowered so that I can win more games without having to try hard” should be fairly obvious.