It’s serkONE, he makes dumb suggestions based on just whatever match he was in. At least he isn’t as bad as the “delete hero and refund players” guy but I’d take 10 suggestions from Totoon before I ever listen to serk.
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Yeah so it can only really fill a lane at 20 on certain Mid Lanes
So it’s not a good comparison there I agree
But personally I don’t think you need a comparison
Fact of the matter is Rag is literally sacrificing an ultimate slot for macro power rather then team fight power, a hero who without that ultiamte is just inherintly weaker then pretty much every bruiser in the game except D’va when it comes to his presence in the team fight.
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That’s partially because 90% of the time D.va doesn’t have ult, either. Bunny Hop is an amazing ult if used right but most of the time you’re forced to take Big Shot so you can have your mech more consistently up.
So I guess the one-eyed rules over the blind there.
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That’s true, but even then I think D’va if she can go Bunny Hop is fairly comparable to Rag who was able to take smash
HIs power scaling by his talent tiers are as bad as Zeratul’s without the level of OP zera gets at 16
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Sacrificing an ult is only half right. On some maps the team fights have a good chance of being in the lane. Combo with some lock down and the lava wave can contribute to the fight. First time I have heard someone actually complain about lava wave though. But after reading the op’s post it sounds more like QQ over blowing a 4 level lead than it is about the actual title. Take the L dude.
The community did once complain about BFG, but that was when it took out structures. Hammer needs a rework. IMO she is the most boring hero in the game.
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My issue is that she is so easily counter by most heroes. Heroes that can dive her, Heroes with long range skill shots, Heroes with blinds. There is a reason she is only played less then 2% of games.
Right. Rag’s level 20 talent let them catch up on talent tiers.
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I played a lot of Ragnaros last season, and checked his HP stats and my impression was that LW is overperforming. Not op, but slightly too much.
It’s never a bad pick.
It cannot be missed or countered.
It has strong value.
But ppl were really against the mere idea. It didn’t matter how slight(/useless) the nerf would’ve been, they said that Rag would be useless with a weaker LW, no matter how weaker it’d be 
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I guess it would, i just think there should be something atleast to reduce the overperforming part.
I would suggest the cooldown reduction at lvl 20 to be removed but he still has 2 charges. That could be a step towards that direction.
It can be if you are going to have to contest off-lane late game. For example on Gardens of Terror, Cursed Hollow or Voloskia Foundry. It cannot contribute to the objective team fights which is what the enemy will immediately try to exploit. In such cases one will have to focus on a macro win since without a significant level and keep advantage your enemies are going to win with a late game objective that your team will have issues contesting.
That would cause it to have no picks at 20. The reason the cooldown reduction exists is to give people a reason to pick it since at 2 minutes cooldown the stacking aspect (free extra cast) brings practically no value that late in the game. Even with its current cooldown reduction I often find myself picking Heroic Difficulty or Submerge instead as you can keep most of the benefits of having Lava Wave while reducing some of the team fight penalties.
You made it general based on your own thoughts, it’s picked ~75% of the time, which is obviously the majority of the times.
After lvl 20 the “value” is the push it gives and it should NOT have any other value apart for it, the game’s focus should be around Player skill and not automated abilities that gives value for no effort.
Think about it, an ult that clears 3 waves of minions. Globals can stay to clear a camp push and fly to battle, effort on both parts. Ragnaros clears 3 waves and he’s not even there which can cause heavy damage on forts especially if there’s a camp pushing with the incoming wave.
Sulfuros smash is not a garantued ult and it’s very limited to teams communication to perform a combo where he can land it accurately. Lava wave is never a bad choice since it brings value everytime you press R.
Press R and go grab something to drink and you will give your team the value of you standing AFK in base back til you come back automatically. What joy, aahhh wish life gave me rewards for no effort. Wouldn’t that be something? Sit and enjoy life and be successful for doing nothing.
It can’t be.
Rag doesn’t need SS to be useful on those maps and LW is not bad on those maps.
Then it would be pretty bad, since it’d give only 1 extra LW. You don’t waste a Storm Talent for 1 extra use of a Heroic.
It is not picked at all in Brawls because Lava Wave is disabled entirely. Hence no idea where you are pulling these statistics from and I doubt it is an official source.
Hence why it needs the cooldown reduction since otherwise the level 20 talent upgrade adds no value.
On the other hand a single Sulfuras Smash could kill 3 enemy heroes. Just think about it. That is 3 enemy heroes gone from play for 70 seconds allowing his team to push lanes, take bosses or use objectives uncontested.
This is why it has such power, since by choosing it he is giving up a powerful combo ultimate that can literally win games as well.
He can combo it off any stun, root or major slow. For example a Muradin Storm Bolt, or Imperius Celestial Charge. He can even combo it off self-stun such as Kel Thuzard trying to combo one of his allies. When in Molten Core mode it has a long range as well. Centre impact is 1k damage late game which is over half the health of squishy heroes assuming they do not get armor or protected, finishing them off then is quite easy even for lower damage heroes.
Abathur does this as well via his trait and Monstrosity ultimate. Still does not win games by itself.
If he takes it on those maps he is forcing his team to win via macro, since they will out right lose when at equal level in a 5v5 off-lane team fight due to being an ultimate down. As people have discussed above, winning by macro is a legitimate strategy and why Lava Wave is often a good choice.
However if the enemy team has other macro orientated heroes then this leaves Ragnaross in a potential bad position since he is unlikely to gain a serious macro advantage and unlike himself, those heroes have not sacrificed their off-lane ultimate capabilities so can contest objectives better to win via those. One could argue that in this case it was a bad choice as winning team fights might have been a better option as Ragnaros already has good wave clear.
Additionally if his team already has other macro capabilities then adding more macro is unlikely to give much benefit reducing the value Lava Wave brings. In this case one could argue it is a bad choice since the team fight potential of smash would be better.
Where do you get this nonsense?
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Personally I would have tone lava wave a bit - to the point it can’t kill catapult. (leaving it like on 20 hp for single melee hit of minnion) As right now dealing a lot dmg against mercs (I think it is enough to kill suicide Mercs on TOD and rocket using mercs on braxis and Nuclear Junction and Mercs on Volskaya.)
You’re both on the same talent tier at that point, its not the XP that kills you it the fact that now there are 2 lanes pushing against your buildings unopposed till the next wave comes out.
LOL what did they hit 30 while you were 25. I mean once you are past 20 the extra soak doesn’t matter as much as the lane push he enables and the defense v minions for his team. Learn to win, my guess is your slow and steady team had at least 2 chances to win but backed off.
Anytime the enemy is down 3 or 4 players late game you need to think can I core and win not lets get all the mercs then do the objective then go core.
Go directly to core do take mercs go CORE.
Because this ult is literally just a soaking ult and in fights Ragnaros is just like Abathur’s Evolution. 
In Storm League, i didn’t say anything about Brawls. In Storm League across all ranks, it has a 75% pickrate and is the most popular choice. Even if you filter Master and Diamond it still has the highest pickrate and winrate.
It does add value, you get a second charge… The CD reduction is a “sugar ontop”.
You’re giving up “potential” power, i would say one is TF oriented and the other one is both TF oriented AND Push oriented. It’s TF oriented indirectly for causing XP boost to give your TF more power AND tower pressure so you hit 2 birds with one shot with Lava wave… Sulfuros Smash has Less value unless it’s picked against an intentional setup.
No he most surely does not, he sacrifices TF Copy for a monstrosity to slowly poke one minion at a time, Aba has to enter it to make it useful and when he does so he sacrifices TF assist. Whatever an Abathur decides to do it’s hedged with consequences. Lava wave doesn’t have that, it’s automated and you just press R to do make Abathurs Monstrosity effort become literally nothing in comparison. One has effort and cost, other has NONE.
Yea which is what we were doing, they were not bad players mind you, apart from Ragnaros. They played really well and defended really well. We had slow but painful damage, they had strong burst damage which they bursted down waves and we spammed the waves if that makes sense. Gul’dan does 3 felflames, jaina does blizzard + cone. Jaina clears abit faster so they defended pretty good but they were losing with with full surety until Lava wave effortlessly gave their team a XP catchup power climb.
As i mentioned, it’s not at all the same. One pecks on one minion and takes a good while to get value, Ragnaros Lava Wave does it with eyes closed easier and with less effort, less cost and more value.
Where did Blizzard say this? Or provide the information for this?
You are casting it pretty much on cooldown anyway, so the extra charge and extra cast (since you get 1 free charge) is near worthless. Especially compared with a huge buff to Molten Core or some heal with an invulnerable period.
Now if it was to recharge both charges every cooldown then I would agree that the cooldown reduction would be overpowered and should be removed. That said such incarnation of the level 20 talent is already an order of magnitude stronger than what we have.
Which does not really matter if you lose the actual team fight with hero losses.
Monstrosity at 40 stacks is an order of magnitude more powerful than clone. Not only does it have infinite duration, it is global and hits for as much damage as a high end auto attack hero. It also shields and heals all nearby allies and at 20 can even get a second symbiote on a nearby hero for even more damage. Contrary to popular opinion, symbiote abilities are very close to full hero abilities and hurt a lot late game.
Sure if they let it run by itself it does not do much, but then against Lava wave is the exact same since the enemy can win the team fight (due to ultimate advantage) and then efficiently clean the lane before it can inflict much damage to structures without Ragnaros and allies backing the push up.
Who won them the game according to you so clearly was also “not bad”.
All it does is delay the enemies clearing the lane efficiently in seconds and getting back equal experience. It only gets an experience advantage if his enemies do not bother clearing the lane afterwards or if he denies them the ability to do so.
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Heroesprofile and HotSLogs, even if the sites are slightly inaccurate an overwhelming stat is an overwhelming stat. Lava wave has ~85% popularity in Hotslogs and higher winrate.
The point is with removing the cooldown reduction i don’t even think it would affect anything. I think it even needs an increased cooldown apart from the talent being removed. 120sec to 140sec and removed CD reduction so that he has 2 stacks of Lava wave but can use every 140sec. that’s 2min and 20sec CD each wave.
This way the emphasis will be applied to other talents that actually forces Ragnaros to play himself over being handed cookies for NOTHING.
Nothing matters this way, if you’ve lost the TF you’ve lost the TF. So not sure where u wanned to get with this.
If you lose a team fight, NOTHING matters, except for Ragnaros Lava wave who matters everytime you use it. You can’t just create worst case scenarios and say “But look at this”. If you have lost you have lost… im talking about active matches where both teams have a potential to win… This is where Lava wave is a free cookie.
Yea but here’s the thing… HE didn’t win it… His automated kit did. He was pretty bad in TF’s, Bad positioning, bad damage, low reaction, poor awareness. But his 4 allies were good. Puke fest is what i call it… Goes against my common sense… You want to win? EARN it by besting your opponents throu team fight or clearing towers while actually BEING there in that lane.