If that’s the case we should bring back the bug where Falstad had his trait permanently active.
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I just want Valla’s early game lifesteal back. She’s too squishy to wait until the game’s almost over to get some kind of healing.
She doesn’t need Vampiric Assault back. Even just moving Syphoning Arrow back to the first tallent row would be great.
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The original version. So we’re not taking all the buffs a hero has ever received and slamming them into the character, we’re just retrofitting them with their original kits.
No bugs though lol
no thanks.
Nevermind that just “undoing all the nerfs” would break the game so long that in order to buff everyone to the same level it would probably take a year.
oh geeze, a year was a bit of an underestimation.
Which heroes don’t feel like themselves?
What is the way in which they don’t feel like themselves.
Without any explanation your claims are completely pointless.
THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING.
probably 20-35% of new heroes have been “overpowered” or “overtuned” to some degree. And by not allowing nerfs, you are basically forcing power creep. SMH.
so you don’t want any macro play. You know what, if you don’t want macro play, there are moba games without map objectives and camps that push for you.
Because that is what you’re suggesting by buffing all the heroes. You want heroes to get stronger, which means that macro play gets weaker.
Also what do you do about reworks? Which version is the best version?
So many problems with this idea. Try at least getting a solid explanation of how you would do this (regards to reworks of heroes, changes to how abilities work, et cetera).
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I listed some examples so if you lack the reading comprehension to look at them and understand my point, then your response is pointless.
It really isn’t. How is this hard for you to understand?
If balancing is done at a higher power level, they just need to balance around that level rather than the level we have now.
You still confused? ‘SMH’
They are not mutually exclusive at all. Not even close.
You keep thinking about this from the mindset of having one rampant ‘super god’ on a team but if they were all super gods, it would basically feel normal.
Tracer has exactly the same kit as when she was released. Just numbers are different.
I think he gave us the explanation why he wants this changes:
Can you write which heroes feel meh?
Personally, every hero I play for some time feels strong if you know how to play him correctly. Maybe the problem isn’t in heroes, but in your skills.
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So you want something like global 10% buff on every stat and then start balancing from scratch?
It isn’t about strength perse, it’s about their function.
For instance, Tracer does have the same kit but it’s been altered. Her movement doesn’t feel as fluid as before.
That doesn’t mean she’s underpowered or anything, she just doesn’t feel as smooth to play.
Not really asking for stat buffs, just kit/stat restoration.
How can you restore a kit when it is still the same?
Why do you think by “her movement doesn’t feel fluid”? She still can move full speed while attacking. If you mean Blink CD which was increased from 6 to 9 seconds, devs did this because they wanted Tracer to manage her Blinksmore carefully = it increased her skill cap and made bigger difference between good and bad Tracer.
What is the way in which they don’t feel like themselves?
Yes, I saw the few heroes in the OP.
You didn’t explain beyond “they don’t feel like themselves”. That isn’t a meaningful explanation.
Some new heroes end up “overpowered” or “overtuned” by accident. You don’t want to have nerfs, and just buff up heroes.
so if they release a hero that is overtuned, they cannot nerf that hero they have to buff everyone else.
So every 3-4 heroes on average, their will be powercreep.
And you’re killing macro play, like I said:
mercenaries will be effectively weaker
minions will be effectively weaker
objective will be effectively weaker
removing tower ammo would help a tiny bit. But not enough given the fact that you would make it far easier for heroes to deal with non-heroes.
You also casually ignored the fact it would probably take need/over a year of balancing, in which period of time the game would be super unbalanced.
Garrosh pull doesn’t pull.
Rehgar is not Rehgod anymore.
Morales has an energy bar instead of the old mana bar.
etc.
I understand why they did it, it just doesn’t feel smooth anymore.
Not really, because the old specialists were monsters at macro which means that you’d have to manage both macro and micro aka team fighting vs when to handle macro pushes.
Now, everything is a brawlfest and the only real macro you get is strategic timing of camps.
You understand why they did it and all the reasons why it was necessary. So, why do you want to try again something which didn’t work at all? It definitely won’t work at all again.
okay, so you’re clueless.
Hotslogs profile for your account shows a total of one game.
So cannot even attempt to get a reference of skill and experience. ZZZZ
But if you think that doing this would be anything beyond an effective nerf to macro play, you’re wrong.
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It ‘didn’t work’ because their relative power against the rest of the roster was too much. If the rest of that roster shared that power, it wouldn’t produce the same result.
I’d say the same about you if you think macro level play is mutually exclusive with increased power across the board.
My main account is banned from the forums but nonetheless, it’s irrelevant because I’m simply voicing an opinion and not creating a “I quit the game and here’s why” post.
I knew there’d be backlash, hence the title. I’ll still feel the same regardless of whether we measure our private parts or not.
If my rank against yours results in you not taking me seriously, then that’s fine. I don’t value your respect.
No, I’m not wrong, you’re just narrow minded.
Hey there!
This is certainly an interesting topic, so I thought I’d put in my take on it.
I think it is absolutely a fun idea to bring back the old “greats” as it were - things like Garrosh’s original Groundbreaker, Chain Bomb KT, Battle Momentum Thrall, and Ess of Johan on Li-Ming were certainly fun to play with at the time.
As much as I like the idea of bringing some of that cool stuff back, there were good reasons why many of them were removed from the game, and I’d be worried that we’d be right back where we started in many ways. Most of the time we remove really fun things like this are due to counter-play reasons, and they either caused too much frustration or they didn’t hit the mark for having enough good back-and-forth gameplay to stay in the game. If everyone had something that could 1-shot enemies or put them at a severe disadvantage with high reliability I suppose it could be more fun, but then the game would be even more about who gets first strike and less about properly reacting to changing situations. That’s not totally a bad thing as some games do this and can have tons of fun moments, but it isn’t really the game that we set out to make.
I believe that when creating a game, you create a sort of “contract” with your player base about what is and isn’t acceptable in your game, which is largely based on the underlying philosophies that drove the creation of that game in the first place. These philosophies act as north stars that are important for a game to have at a high level to ensure that they stay “true” to themselves and meet the expectations of their players. If we kept all of those things in the game and then upped the power level of other heroes to match, I think it would be fun for awhile but it would be a different game. I believe the risk that it wouldn’t work out and our loyal players leave due to the game being too different would outweigh the possible reward of bringing in more people to play the new, different game that we would have.
Of course, I hate removing fun stuff too, so we do try to bring back these things when we can. One example of this is the current Ignite on Kael’thas. It’s not old Ignite + Chain Bomb, but it’s something.
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Hello, I appreciate the blue response. Entirely unexpected lol.
I wouldn’t even mind if the health of heroes was increased or something. That’s fine. I just really liked the way old tracer felt or the way Garrosh’s pull felt.
Even if it meant that it wasn’t a death sentence, I truly just loved the way it felt. That’s all.
I loved being old stealth, having the suspense of determining whether I was seen or unseen, I loved the antics that depleting tower ammo had on the game, etc.
I just really liked the old renditions.
Nonetheless, this is the only MOBA I play and will play. Last hitting and arguing about last hit mechanics is not really my thing and I dislike being quarantined to a single lane all game just because I picked that spot originally. Team exp was kind of what made me play this game over LoL and still is.
Also, I think objectives also was a breakthrough in unique gameplay because it allows both teams to bring what they’ve reaped through soaking and the like and test it against the enemy team. It’s like a split and then convergence in one game.
Cool stuff.
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Good morning Ayeziza,
Piggy-backing on what Adam said - I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion, but creating asymmetrical balance between 86 Heroes is very delicate work (and has been finely tuned now for over 5 years).
We do our best to keep the vast majority of Heroe’s win-rates between 45% and 55% (currently 79/86 or ~92% of the Hero roster sits in these bounds). This is data from Diamond+ Storm League players and gets even tighter when we look at the whole population, including Quick Match.
There is a huge amount of risk with shifting the current balance of Heroes upwards, but there is a sweet-spot that we can hit where a Hero can feel OP but actually be well-balanced. We are doing our best to find the current outliers that don’t have those moments and make design or balance changes to help find them =)
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I don’t currently mind the stealth we have right now. Think of it as a passive and not a required part of the hero’s kit. Zeratul is the least reliant on stealth because uncloaking him doesn’t ruin a part of his kit unlike Valeera who completely relies on it to shut down enemy Heroes.
I saw this suggestion somewhere but: make stealth behave in a manner that it becomes more obscure the farther they are from you (just within vision range of most heroes), but become fairly visible in close range (4 units or less).
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My personal opinion on why some heroes can feel “overpowered” without being statistically significant is that players hate the idea of lacking control.
There are heroes that are high risk / high payoff which essentially means that their success entirely depends on a random element. Being on the receiving end of a “success string” can be infuriating, and playing a high-risk hero and failing multiple times can be devastating to your morale.
I’m actually curious what your trend on design philosophy is in this regard. Are you leaning more towards high-risk payouts or more controlled macro strategies?
Release Artanis had the most boring kit imaginable, and I would likely play him far less if they reverted all his changes. Being unkillable only if the enemy team was stupid enough to face tank you isn’t interesting, and godswaps are more than half the reason to play him. If you take his combo away, he is pretty much just a melee minion.
So please, no, let’s not revert all the heroes.
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