Please Remove ARAM

General Discussion
61

My point that the matchmaking could be done on a 30 year old calculator holds.

This you: ?

lol.

62

I don’t play ranked either sweetheart, I play QM almost exclusively. As Xenterex said, you’ve missed out on all the other modes.

ARAM being the most popular mode doesn’t mean it’s the only mode holding the game up. It’s just the fastest mode and it’s a brawler with no macro, so people don’t have to do anything more than faceroll at the enemy team for 15 minutes. They don’t have to try to play the game for real. They don’t even have to stay, as many just peace right out during the game because, as I mentioned, it’s not taken seriously.

63

I don’t know about frequency, but it’s very easy to confirm that it does happen. You can just search the forums for such evidence.

Your claim however is just made up BS that you can’t confirm because you don’t know how the matchmaking works.

1 Like
64

You been living in a cave if this is your additude. If you have been following posts on this forum and on Reddit you would know people have said this times after times now. Some people dont mind waiting five extra mins for a balanced game. Sadly some other people cant wait hence why QM had that option removed years ago.

So you butthurt that some people actually want to climb a ladder just to see how they fare against other people. Dont tell me you mad about people who join real life tournement to win against others in either team sports or 1v1.

Why dont you just mind your own business and let people play what they like and you do the same ? Getting this butthurt must be painfull.

If we take your McDonnalds logic then you go to that place if you want quantity over quality aka ARAM.

If you want quality over quantity then you walk to your local restaurant and get your food from a Michelin chef who has 20 years of experince prepping food aka ranked.

So in other words you mad that some people choose to buy food that was prepped properly by an experince chef then from a employee working at McDonnalds who will serve you a half cold burger that taste of nothing and a bag of french fries with too much salt.

You truely arrogant.

66

You are delusional. People don’t want to wait 5 mins for a “more balanced match”. If they would, you would see people queueing up for unranked, which is a complete disaster for queue times.

67

In case you’ve – somehow – forgotten, I’ve posted links to things directly in contrast to you not so doing.

Please stop kidding yourself: you aren’t motivated by ‘logic’, you aren’t compelling by knowledge, you revel in ignorance and arrogance. You don’t know, and you don’t want to know. That’s why you make claims you cannot back, and then try to deride people for stuff that can easily be checked.

https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Quick_Match

Regardless of the above, there are some guidelines for the Matchmaking. All those guidelines can however effect queue times, so they can be bend by the system.

  • Initially, Call of the Nexus also introduced a set of matchmaking rules that guaranteed a tank, a healer and a ranged assassin in every team composition. The shortage of players willing to queue as healers and tanks, however, caused massive rise in queue times for other roles, leading to this part of the update to be soon reverted.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/t/matchmaking-update-december-21-2018/10957/43

Or they could sacrifice some speed for better quality and find a middle ground.

How about if you play tank or healer that’s ‘clearly lacking’ it rewards you by giving you the option to wait longer for a healer and tank or at least 1 of, to appear, or the option to jump right in

The point is that some people like istant queue no matter what while other prefer a better match but are ok with waiting some minutes.

My wish for the game is to be able to wait and have a balanced and fun game in quick match rather than get into a game that’s going to be twenty or more minutes of frustration with wonky team compositions.

As i said earlier, who hindered of devs to add 2 buttons - ‘‘fast time Q but bad MM’’ and ‘‘long time Q and good MM’’ ?

Now all those quotes are examples of posts to the dev announcement of QM changes in December of 2018. Because of that small duration of ensuring tanks and healers, a number of old hands reference that time when they make requests or complaints regarding QM.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/search?q=%22willing%22%20%22wait%22%20%22queue%22%20order%3Alatest

There’s a search with some specific notation to quickly find related topics:

I would rather sit in queue for 20minutes to find something vaguely balanced than this

but I think that I would rather sacrifice my time in que then have fast ques for bad games.

I personally am willing to wait 3-5 minutes for a good game over a game that is a 20 minute waste of time. Its pretty easy to alt-tab out and multitask while in the queue.

I’d much rather see a checkmark in QM (or any mode for that matter) that signifies that I am willing to wait longer for a higher quality match.

has there ever been a survey of players, are they willing to sacrifice 20% of their extra waiting time in line to get a fair match without primades?

Some of the topics are going to complain about ‘unfair’ QM compositions based on lacking tanks and healers, other are regarding solo vs group; some of the topics do spill over into other modes, but the concern is generally the same: delay matching to try to ensure higher game quality.

Many of the suggestions/topics boil down to similar approaches as aram: make it ‘opt in’ so players that want to wait can be queued to wait while those that want faster matches don’t have to bother.

You can see similar concerns in reddit topics: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/u7guo4/anyone_else_really_hate_quick_match_purely/

While that’s not from the previous week, the sentiment should seem familiar: people either advise queuing in a different mode, or saying that aram is the better option as players are more likely to choose tanks and healers than they do for QM.

People that were ‘willing to wait’ either do played draft modes (more so ranked) or discord group, or custom pickups, have quit the game, or try to make do.

The transition of players into aram because of matching changes has probably contributed to the polarized groups that assert that aram has to suit ‘x’ player at the expense of ‘y’ player.

You being ignorant of concerns prior to your involvement on the forums doesn’t mean they don’t exist, is just means you don’t care.

68

IMO most of the ASAM haters tend to have no profile picture. Where’s my foil hat

2 Likes
69

chronic complainers tend to have a dress code, it’s more professional that way :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
70

They claim to hate Blizzard but keep useing thier logo as thier portrait. The irony.

1 Like
71

You are just pointing to both old and anecdotal info along with random hyperbole to try to string together an argument and just confuse everybody to prove your point. All you need to understand is basic math.

ARAM queue is 5 seconds. 60 seconds / 5 seconds = 12 full ARAM games being launched per minute.
12 full games * 10 players = 120 players in queue per minute for ARAM. (btw- This already includes MMR match making)

With QM being 1 min per queue, are you telling me that when 120+ people are queued for QM, the match making algorithm is so bad that it cannot group 3 classes together quickly when there isn’t even a rule that all 3 need to be grouped in the same game? The claim that more people are queuing for QM can be put out to pasture.
Mic drop.
I’ll see you all next week and have a good weekend folks.

72

[Citation needed]

Given that Heroes Profile shows almost twice as many QM matches recorded over the last patch cycle than ARAM, “I say so” isn’t a very compelling argument. That might fly in politics, but not in the business world.

Edit: Ah, I see the problem, you don’t actually know how the QM matchmaker works. It takes multiple factors into account, unlike ARAM. These include account level (new player queue still exists, but isn’t as strict as it used to be), party size, roles, and individual heroes (one team can’t have 2 Nazeebos, for example). If of that 160 people in queue, 20 of them are Nazeebo, 6 of them are account level 50 or lower, 73 are in stacks of 3 or more, 32 are solo queueing as a healer, and no one in their right mind has solo queued as a tank (you just know that Varian will go Twin Blades no matter what they are facing!), you can see that no matter how powerful the computer calculating the matchmaking may be, it can’t invent the players needed to fill every queue, so the average time will be longer than “10 people are queued? GOOD ENOUGH!”

Let’s just face it, enough people leave ARAM games as it is, even those that aren’t full mirrors, just because they are miffed about … something, may as well put them out of their misery and just delete the game mode. That group of people who lost something they enjoy can just get over it. Everyone else will be happier for it.

3 Likes
73

I’m 100% sure that is the care here. He is a ARAM main so ofc he will defend his fav mode to the death with or without any proof. Case closed. Just leave him alone.

Ye leavers happens in normal ARAMS aswell but somehow its totally fine for those people who need 10 accounts just to avoid something that have zero impact in thier life.

Would better just to mute every ARAM thread and just stick to productive threads that dont end up with us arguing with some guy that wont accept anything but thier own narrative.

1 Like
74

You might have a point, but outdated information and incomplete stats from HP is all we have to draw any conclusions about this matter. I would further argue that popularity alone is mostly irrelevant to this topic.

We know for a fact that ARAM has a dedicated player base, enough to keep queue times almost instant at any time of the day, at least on the NA server. That fact alone, would seem to be enough justification for the Dev to respond to feedback, and make attempts to address complaints made here and on Reddit.

75

Nope, you need to know more than that. Also note: you’ve tried the ‘math’ card before, and you both flubbed the execution and the understanding involved. You’re demonstrating the same problem that you do not conceptualize ‘volume’ correctly which is why I keep replying to you about things you do not nkow. Your ‘core’ concern is you thinking you are “right” and therefore people are trying to ‘disprove you’ rather than trying to educate you about issues you are making for yourself.

You aren’t compelled by information, you’re empowered by ignorance: that’s why, despite all these topics, you refuse to learn anything and you spend your efforts trying to pretend your confirmation bias validates your position as ‘proof.’ You are a text-book case of lacking skill, not wanting to improve, and then faulting everything else in the aftermath. That’s why I said your anti-aram is a skill issue and not what you ‘think’ you convey. You don’t know enough to be honest, and you’d rather be dishonest and pretend that that ‘proves’ your case because you don’t know what constitutes ‘proof’, so you cannot use it correctly as an ‘argument’ and on the reverse, you don’t want to see it against what you already want to think.

If something doesn’t validate what you already want to think, then it must not exist. Unfortunately, the proof that decries that abounds and it’s on your end to eventually realize that.

Despite your anti-skill posting, here’s what you’re are misunderstanding from me: What I posted is to establish “context”. Your forum activity comes after the QM changes, and since you have demonstrated that you have zero grasp of things you haven’t personally experienced, I’m going to provide information that you probably don’t have so you might increase your observation capacity instead of trying to fallback on the ‘backfire’ effect. Do you need a link to have that defined?

The capacity to have a ‘faster’ match doesn’t mean the pool is bigger, nor does it mean it remains the same at all given times. Simple, lazy, ignorant conclusions tend to be ‘counter-intuitive’ to what is actually happening. That’s part of why ‘science’ has particular requirements for establishing context and ‘proof’, and why – on your end – you disregard those and still assert you’re ‘right’ about something you can’t demonstrate despite alternatives being available.

Or a more simple concern: it’s why devs may disregard simple player complaints that have a narrow field of view, limited understanding, and a reluctance to care that that matters.

You don’t know the constraints of the matching, so you don’t care what they have, much the same that you don’t care that a bigger player base makes for overall more matches. That’s “basic math” that more players can player more total games than fewer players despite faster queue times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm2pvpmnyvw

If you can stomach being outside your own head for 3 minutes, there’s a basic hypothetical posted by someone that’s not me that describes some of the key distinctions for gameplay people can overlook.

  1. most of the players are “in-game”, not waiting in queue.

That means that more players can populate longer games because there’s more of them in those games.

  1. The video hypothetical indicates how a playerbase of “100,000” already breaks down into only ‘185’ available players for a lobby, so games tend to either demand bigger pools than people realize, or their playerbase is bigger and more segmented than some are willing to consider.

A number of players have tried to decry the game playerbase due to the limit imposed on chat lobby sizes. Posters like yourself and aubergine have to assume the playerbase is limited because your understanding is limited. Unfortunately, you’re on the end of assuming you already know, don’t want to know, and then acting like you’re all the better despite because a case of lacking skill, and not wanting to improve.

That applies to knowledge, it applies to ‘basic math’. It’s not enough, and that’s part of why you keep posting flawed methods and flawed conclusions.

76

I went back to Hots and played about 10+ games the past 2 days and saw atleast a few of those games which had the same player popping up twice in a raw. That perfectly fits my last comment about if ARAM is more popular then ranked.

You have the same players popping up in your games cause its just a low popularity roler coaster with next to no que time aka the same people running back in line to try the roler coaster again and again.

Popularty means nothing for a game mode if its always the same 50 players that ques up to it. Compared to the 1000 players who stay in que for a ranked game that has MM restictions to care about first.

The game mode with no restictions and only 50 playerd in it wil ofc end up with more games played then one who wait for a ranked game to pop up. Its like math for 3 graders.

3 Likes
77

You said it originally, but I would agree when you say that a majority of ARAM players probably don’t care to u/l their stats to HP. I’m looking at HP now, and only seeing about 10% of the games i’ve played over the last couple months.

78

I don’t play it often but I like ARAM for a different twist on the game. It’s meant to be a non serious way to play with your heroes. There is nothing wrong with that.

79

Im honestly down with removing ARAM since all its doing is generating more dumb players that wont know how to rotate or soak. I would even be down for removing quick match and making Unranked the default game mode.

80

Removing QM would just make QM players complain. There are nothing you can do in this game without you step on someone toes and they will start complaining. There are people who only main ranked/QM/ARAM/AI. Mostly because they dont want to deal with anything the other modes provide. It will be a tough lemon to swallow for all the ARAM/QM mains if that happens.

5 stacks suddenly have to deal with teams who can draft against them and not just get thier free win nr 35 in a raw like they do now. ARAM players that suddenly gets thier fav mode removed and is forced to play something they would never touch…

Unranked would give you some chances to draft a proper team atleast but then you lose your '‘I want to play a specific hero mode’'that most people want. If you end up banning a one-tricks hero then you certain they will start trolling your team.

81

Getting rid of both QM and ARAM would eliminate 90% of the player base IMO. I mean just pull the plug on the server at that point.

3 Likes