No more matchmaking by roles and perfect comps in QM! We need MM by MMR NOW!

General Discussion
21

I mean, forced comps are still there, the MM just don’t keep trying to find them for as long as possible, generating 20 min queues even when you queued as tank or healer. I also thought that only if you queued assassins you would get really long queues, but I started queueing as healer or tank and still got 15-20 min queues. Sure I got a “perfect comp”, but my team had nowhere near my MMR and that just led to stomp after stomp. It was no fun at all.

What we have now is still forced comps but the MM just don’t try to force them for as long as possible. So you still get them from time to time, but if the MM is unable to find forced comps on your MMR range (which it usually doesn’t find them because the playerbase is way smaller now), it expands the queue to other MMR ranges, which leads to imbalanced matches and stomps. It gets even worse when you get 5 assassins vs 5 assassins but everyone is in a completely different MMR.

What I’m proposing here is that if the MM is unable to find a forced comp on your MMR range, DON’T EXPAND IT. Just give us a game with players that have similar MMR. It literally doesn’t matter if both teams have balanced comps if you mix bronze mmr with master mmr. Even if the average MMR of both teams are similar, it will still lead to a stomp/10 minute game. I can count on my fingers how many games were not a stomp/10 minute matches since forced comps came out.

22

But isn’t it what happens when the expanding MM takes over?
Getting rid of the buddy system matching extremes i am all for it.
I don’t think having strict MMR pairing would be possible even if the game was not struggling we can maybe have a less spread MMR averaging for people not being at the extrêmes of MMR.

23

I have had 2-3 heal/tank comps in solo QM (where no allies were partied up) but never 4.

And 5 is pure impossibility unless it’s specifically a party of 5 players doing it on purpose.

https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/3ohf2v/oh_quick_match_either_you_get_no_healers_or/

That thread has people with screens who have had it happen for years.

24

I thought that expanded MM was just getting rid of comps, but it isn’t. I still get A LOT of forced comps after the queue expands. The main difference I see when I get a forced comp after the queue expands is that we get all kinds of players there. Literally people who just started playing and people who are really really good.

This is not confirmed by the devs and I don’t think they would ever confirm it tbh, but from all my games (and those were a lot) since call of the nexus, whenever I got expanded queue, those games were just stomps and it was clear that no one in the match had similar MMR. Whenever I got a match before the expanded queue happened, match was really fair and fun, even with 5 assassins.

Basically what seems to be happening now is:

MM tries to force comps on your MMR range.
MM can’t find forced comps from your MMR range, so it expands to other ranges.
If it finds a forced comp no matter how different the MMR is among the players, match starts.
If it can’t find a forced comp, you get any comp but from any MMR range.

Before the rules were softened, the MM would keep trying to force comps within your MMR range for several minutes (which led to 15-20 minute queue even in major regions).

I just don’t think the system as a whole works, especially now that we have a lower number of players, even in QM. Stomps will happen from time to time, it’s true, but this is being ridiculous now. It’s just no fun to win or lose in under 13 minutes with 3-4 level lead. I don’t mind if the MM still tries to force comps, but it shouldn’t sacrifice matching people from the same MMR range or at least close to it.

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25

QM quality dropped a lot when they changed beginner queues and enforced their horrible buddy system.
If the buddy system had less relaxed gaps in MMR between the new and more experienced accounts i feel it would make QM more enjoyable as starters.

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26

Yeah, maybe that would solve most of the problems. All I know is this: it can’t stay like it is now!

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27

I’m not sure what I’m supposed to see in that picture.

Choosing Aba will result in being against either a Medivh, Zarya or Tassadar 100% of the time unless there are normal healers in the match.

But if ones’ matches are left up to the whims of Blizzard somehow, then explain this:

https://imgur.com/a/sBylVwt

And you do know that you can’t see whether there are groups on the opposing side during loading screen now, right? Can only check if there are groups after the end game statistics/whatever by mousing over and seeing if it says “Currently in a group with FlyingSausage, WickedPumpkin and Gokugokugoku” or whatever.

That link of yours proves nothing. There’s one screenshot and it’s of a match already in progress. Doesn’t prove anything…

I just don’t buy this. I’ve played a total of 11800 matches, most of which were QM, and I haven’t seen this problem occur, aside from some very brief moments when the QM matchmaker got broken and it messed up by taking both healers or tanks in a match and put them on one side, with 0 healers/tanks on the other. But that was fixed within a few days.

The only thing I can conclude is that people don’t know Blizzard made it so you can’t see whether the enemy is grouped or not.

Once again, it doesn’t force any comps…

I have heard that Blizzard removed the new player protection, probably so that they wouldn’t have looooong queues.

But as I don’t smurf myself so can’t I comment much on this.

But even then it could have been MMR averaged out, if there were another 0~~ MMR on the opposing team to you.

This seems like nonsense again. Why wouldn’t one be able to climb to say, platinum/Diamond-level MMR, in 150-200 matches, if one was winning the vast majority of the matches? It’s not like the level of the account adds some invisible bonus MMR for no reason… they’re just played the game longer, doesn’t mean they’re any good… I’ve seen a level 3000 who sucked, for instance…

28

The only enforcement I know of is that healer will always be attempted to be matched with a healer, and a tank with at least 1 tank.

QM matchmaker practically wont allow matches to happen without these parameters being filled, unless you get the Extended Search.

If neither team has a tank or heal though, anything goes, even 5 assassin vs 5 assassin.

29

I’m pretty sure it also makes sure not to put more than one healer on both sides, with the obvious exception of when a group queues up with multiple healers.

Maybe I’ve just been lucky or something and never had it occur when it was possible or maybe there’s some weird difference in the matchmaker settings between EU and US or maybe there’s some people in this thread exaggerating and/or had no bloody clue that Blizzard made it so you can’t see groups on the opposing side during loading and then made a fool of themselves.

30

They implemented it before

Took 10 min to find a match.

You All Cried and Complained

They took it away.

Blame yourself and get over it

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31

True, as of April last year you can only see premades in your own team.

Enemy premades are hidden. There is no way to tell whether their dual/3 tank or supp team was in a premade.

(Well, you can hover mouse over the players after a match in score tab to see if they’re in a party, but it’s a hassle.)

32

And few people know of this as well and most don’t know that you can’t see premades during loading, so they assume they’re against a full team of solo queuers.

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33

Nevermind, I was wrong. I found Sami’s screenshot in an old thread, apparently the mm rules can be broken at any time even without extended search.
https://i.imgur.com/hwAxgZB.png

And a few other matches in that thread that still show loading screen premades, with 2 heal vs no heal.

Maybe happens out of peak hours simply due to lack of anybody else queuing.

34

Likely this was during the period when the MM was temporarily broken, as I mentioned already:

35

That could indeed be because Orphea broke it (too many people queuing as Orphea), at least during that topic. So it desperately just matched parties together to get games going.

Probably similar things happened during DW release, all MM rules out of the window briefly.

36

They do tend to loosen the rules by making mirror matches more possible when a new hero is released, making it possible they may have loosened the rules too much in the process.

Either way I don’t believe that the matchmaker puts multiple healers on teams intentionally. It’s either a bug or premades.

37

Yeah yeah, that’s what I meant. I thought they were together, but after the match ended I checked and they were not.

It still does. The MM still tries to match tank + healer + ranged + flex + flex. You can find the confirmation here:

The MM is still trying to force comps, but the rules are not that rigid anymore, so the MM won’t keep trying to find those comps for 15-20 minutes.

They did remove it, but that’s not even the problem. I’m speaking more about pure MMR. It is really clear when someone is not as skilled as you or is way more skilled. Or even teams. You can tell quite easily what team has more skilled players. The difference is actually big.

Even if the system is trying to average the MMR of both teams, this is still quite bad. Imagine one team having a really good tank player and good healer, and the other team just have good assassins players. This is already a really inbalanced match. One could make a case and say the match was fair if both teams had the weak players on the same roles, but still… I really fail to see what improvement it is to match people from any mmr range just for the sake of finding comps instead of matching them by mmr first, if you find a comp good, if you don’t just give them a match and let them have fun in an equal skill level match.

Yeah I know levels don’t matter. My main point here is that there is clearly a big difference in mmr when it comes to those 10 players in a QM match.

38

https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/7mx3m0/enough_with_the_double_supports_in_qm/

At least this player said they frequently get another heal on their team when they play heal (or support), but that is from 2018.
And also

I’ve had triple healers in a lot of my games lately. Not even 3 supports, but 3 straight healers.

I was playing Auriel and was matched with Li Li, Tassadar, Malfurion and Artanis. We somehow won, but that match went on for more than 30 minutes…

It’s hard to find later complaints.

39

I don’t even think you read the thread just like that other guy…

I don’t think they change anything when a new hero is released, I think the MM just puts the new hero on both teams because there’s too many queueing that hero. I still get mirror matches every week. About a month ago I even had 2 mirrored heroes LOL. I don’t mind mirrored heroes though.

I think it’s probably bugged. As I said before, it might be due to the MM still trying to find those comps. But even those matches don’t bother me that much. What bothers me is seeing that we have 0 to 1 milion mmr in the same team (exagerating on purpose just to show how different the mmr among the players is).

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40

I would love more mmr balance in QM. Every game is a stomp or get stomped no matter what the comp is and honestly is getting really tiring that I just go to unranked more than QM. Just all the people who dont know how to play in QM is outstanding. There is no balance. I am diamond in ranked. Plat mmr in QM. But 75 percent of my games I go look at players profiles and they are silver. Even bronze players. What’s the point.

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