They didn’t need a buff.
3 Likes
Nazeebo in general needed huge buffs to be viable. Just dodge his spiders. Wall should never land on its own. E is only deadly as a shotgun to melee heroes. Ults are both pretty bad.
6 Likes
Nazeebo had a 45-46% winrate for the couple few patches before the buffs. He did need buffs, and pretty big ones at that.
Now, whether he needed buffs this big remains to be seen.
5 Likes
Based on HP his buffs were good, they made him balanced and useful. He has 52% winrate overall (9000+ matches) and 51% in master/diamond.
https://www.heroesprofile.com/Global/Hero/?timeframe_type=minor&timeframe=2.54.2.85894&game_type=sl&league_tier=master,diamond
You don’t say: Are you sure about zeebo?
1 Like
I don’t think over-buffing Naz’s Spiders was the best way to go.
The problem with his Spider’s is that they deal a ton of damage to heroes that don’t have some kind of blink/sprint (ie - the least mobile heroes), but deal very little damage to heroes that do (ie - the more mobile heroes). All you need is a tiny bit of separation and the spiders won’t catch up to you anymore (or will only get a few hits in) and you can just run away, negating most of the damage.
I think it makes Naz very strong against the wrong heroes (the least mobile heroes)… the ones that he was already good against.
I think they would have been better off changing his trait (VOODOO RITUAL) and making it more like Butcher. I know they gave BLOOD RITUAL at level 4 a Passive - 5 stacks per takedown, but I feel like this should be baseline. Also, last hitting minions isn’t fun… it’s one of the main reasons why I left League of Legends for HotS, because I hated that mechanic.
Because of how important his trait is, especially to his late-game power, he’s much weaker on 2-lane maps. His win rate on 2-lane maps is 6% below his win rate on 3-lane maps… that’s a huge disparity. I don’t think they really addressed this issue at all.
1 Like
I don’t think so and I like the idea the devs choosed, because now players have to make a decision, which talents they want, if they want “Big Voodoo” to get more value of his trait, then they should know the risk or they want Blood Ritual to get faster stacks, but without the value of Big Vodoo. It’s all about decision making and that’s how it should be in my opinion.
If you’re good and now you can complete the 20 quest, then Big Voodoo is still better than Blood Ritual, but if you fail it’s worse. ETC is another example, where Blizzard made the same, they buffed encore and added a cdr to heroics that’s a huge buff, but before the buff it was the worst talent option, but now it competes with other good talents. That’s good balance design.
It just give him more HP and mana and with the 20 talent he gets a damage boost I wouldn’t say it’s mandatory, but it’s obviously good value. It’s comparable to Azmodan’s Pride. Good talents, but you don’t have to forget that he also has other good talents. Btw I like Nazeebo’s heroic upgrade: Humongoid, heavy cdr reduction, increased radius and slow. It’s a great zoning tool.
1 Like
Keep in mind that’s the v2.54.2 patch, not the v2.54.3 patch. Nazeebo’s buffs were the v54.3 patch. For some reason, HP doesn’t even have the option to select v54.3 yet.
They could just nerf the slow. But 3500 dmg over 5 sec late game is still abit over the top imo. He can delete mages with just one Q lategame.
3 Likes
The map has always been biggest factor in completing the level 20 quest.
I don’t care how good you are, it’s way tougher to complete the level 20 quest on a 2-lane map… and far easier to complete on 3-lane maps with narrow gaps between the lanes, like Tomb of the Spider Queen or Towers of Doom. It’s precisely why his win rate is so high on those maps and so low on 2-lane maps.
If you’re not moving, yes. But in reality it won’t deal that much damage and WereELF practice mode example with Hanzo Bot is just unrealistic, because mages like Hanzo wouldn’t go to melee range.
Indeed and that’s good! Talents shouldn’t be mandatory.
I wouldn’t say that, because I like the zoning potencial he has and with blood ritual he finally don’t have to afk all the time for stax.
While landing a jar and dealing 2k is pretty nifty, I’d like naz’s general kit to be buffed over having one ability be good if it lands.
That said, naz is still kinda F tier.
2 Likes
Yes Q needs a nerf and is just a proof that Blizzard is trying to change the meta by overbuffing and not with new content anymore.
Nazeebo needed a small buff maybe, but he had already a very strong lategame, insane pushing power and even ice block. There is no need at all to give him oneshot potential with an easy to hit ranged ability. They nerfed Q build back in the time for the same reason they need to do it now again. The HOTS content pendulum is moving.
After Valla and Zagara, Nazeebo is now the next QM freeELO hero.
It’s a typo.
HP: 2.54.2.85894
Current version: 2.54.3.85894
Just look at Zagara Q build’s WR.
3 Likes
He needed a rework imo, not simply buffs. The changes that were made were a step in the right direction but he’s still a PvE oriented hero at his core, only now he has an overtuned build. My opinion of him is still the same like Zagara. Needed a rework, was given buffs.
2 Likes
Not at all. Blood ritual fixed the issue completely for non-experienced Naz players and if you’re more experienced, then Big Vodoo or Q-talent (don’t know the name) are still better (depends on the map ofc).
Overtuned… with 51% winrate…eh?
Against Zagara you needed two heroes to compete her, but I don’t see the same issues with Naz. Not even close.
Yes, but the player still has to choose that talent to become more PvP oriented. So if you want Nazeebo to have any teamfight interaction pre VI then you’d still be ‘forced’ to pick that talent, effectively making Nazeebo only have 1 level 4 talent (of course his case is not as polarized as, say Kerrigan’s 7 for example, but my point still stands).
In my book, that means the hero itself is still PvE at heart and can only become PvP oriented through a select few of talents.
You’re missing the point. My point is that these 2 had the opportunity to be reworked similar to Sylvanas and Azmodan, however they were simply buffed without regards that their weak PvP was because of how PvE oriented their power budget was.
2 Likes
Yeah and if you read talents and know to play this hero I don’t see the problem? Just because people will choose the wrong talent, doesn’t mean it’s an issue with the hero.
Wrong, you’re only forced to do so, if A) you suck with Nazeebo and B) on maps, where it won’t work to soak on lanes for stacks like two-lane maps. The former reason isn’t really valid, because if you don’t know how to play this hero you can pick whatever you want, you will likely still fail.
Spider build never was an pve build, but rather pvp-oriented. Only trait build was the pve build tbh. with that quest that increase the damage of your spells as a reward. And most afk’zeebos I played with played this build and where afk until lategame.
I’ve explained my opinions to you before, so I don’t have the energy to do it again, but in my book, if a hero needs to take a talent to even have some PvP power then that hero is not a well-designed hero.
This is the case with Nazeebo. It’s not a problem of him not having a PvP build, it’s the problem of him, when stripped of fancy talents and builds, is a PvE hero at his core because his trait, his identity doesn’t even have any interaction with heroes without a level 20 quest.
Similar to old Black Arrows on Sylvanas, and old Globe of Annihilation quest on Azmodan, Voodoo Ritual forces Nazeebo to be played in a certain PvE-oriented way until he gets 20. While he does have Q build for more PvP, I find it of bad design that he has to talent into a build to be even remotely impactful in teamfights. This when coupled with the direction that the game is taking (reworking heavy PvE heroes to have their power more in PvP) means that Nazeebo is a prime candidate for a proper rework. A rework that can change the PvE restriction that he has on his trait and change his playstyle to be healthier.
3 Likes
Agreed. Especially so if that hero is considered to be an “assassin”, it makes even less sense. Like you I would like them to rework his trait and smooth out his power curve so he’s not so late scaling and make Blood Ritual baseline. Toad build is fine vs a slow frontline team, but I think the requirement to hit 80 heroes to gain a debuff is too high compared to the bonus you gain from Q build.
4 Likes