From Silver to Master with Malthael only - a mate has 60 Games, 90% Winrate
A friend of mine has Malthael lvl 999 and got GM1 with him.
The damage he makes is insane, specially when having nanoboost-Ana. After watching him, I started to love the style he plays with him.
It is not always something bad, just because you (and me aswell) are not able to have that winrate and skill.
Not every hero can be mastered. He found Malthael, I found Valla and Genji for me. Another example: Genji is way harder to play as Raynor. But I am to stupid to learn him. Accept it
No one takes damage from siege. (Though most bruisers/assassins will do it faster than Malthael)
But for bruiser camp, I assume you started with full health and mana?
It used up about 57% of your mana. Which is significant.
Like I said, Malthael CAN take it, itâs better than not being able to, but heâs not efficient at it.
Nitpick: you lost 27% on that screenshot
How long ago was that? I play Malthael myself. But Iâve ben getting better results with Hogger.
Thatâs weird. As Malth, I find I canât challenge Chen in lane. Stats seem to confirm this.
This excludes SIlver and lower, and hero levels lower than 10.Malthael is way at the bottom. ( But he stays at the bottom no matter which filters you use)
Basically, most heroes who canât stop Chen from drining have a hard time.
well then what explains the 50% extra damage if the enemy is alone or the 8% max hp damage for a single target ability? (W)
well then please tell me which ones or tell me ways that gurantees a win against some of them in a straight fight
well i can actually deal with diablo, and i cant deal with chogall unless we r both level 17
among the bruisers ive never won against an imperius, ive hardly won any against Ragnaros, never killed a Varian, Artanis is 100% loss, Rexxar is a 100% loss, Thrall is 100% loss, Gazlowe is a super super hard fight but 100% loss if the enemy gazlowe is over level 15 with him
the day i posted this, i actually got smashed really hard by a TLV, and Zarya shields really annoying and if minions are also in the fight, she can get enough energy, and also vs Zarya with a decent energy, cant kite; and against a Medivh, he can shield himself, teleport around, and his damage ability does a lot of damage! (tho the medivh must be really really good to win but its still possible)
no, ive never actually won a 1v1 against an alarak or samuro unless they were noobs, the ones that play decently actually beat me
well i always though its the worst but now it synergizes with the âThrowing shadeâ really nice, i can teleport easily on ranged assassins and also since i take the 8% damage, its a good help
i used to take die alone but now throwing shade does a lot of damage in teamfights and i can also target ranged in teamfights
yeah, if there arent really a lot of self healing heroes, i usually just go with cold hand, and i used to go for cold hands always until i realised i needed touch of death to be able to 1v1 Sonya and some of the other heroes
to be frankly honest i find tormented souls super useless, because basic attacks literally do the same thing as TS, if it at LEAST dealt more damage i wouldve used it but meh
this talent actually really does help, i do suggest, but maybe im just wrong
well i do W build for some time and i find it really fun and really good, ive had more than 16 kills with the w once, but with Q build im not really able to do that
well malthael literally has the lowest hp between all the bruisers and even some of the ranged assassins (i think), the reason is because he can heal a lot instead of that, but he cant heal if he cant mark enemies, and he cant mark ranged enemies, so this means that he cant heal, and if he cant heal, he will die fast, and AoE abilities also deal a lot of damage to him in team fights, so basically i should NEVER participate in team fights
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tbh i only die a lot
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that is EXACTLY what i do
well i use that ability for teamfights
i did go that but now i go for W build to take out ranged easier
correct but the cooldown is a bit too much for me
i use that in teamfights to mark everyone in there, then W on the ranged or on low HP targets that r running and its really useful
yes, on this post i mentioned that i did use this ability before, but the ranged on E is a big help and also the % dmg for 1v1 can do a lot, not more than the thing but its still a help, and also i can poke with it a LOT
die alone doesnt increase damage output or add more health, does it? so it doesnt effect anything, it just reduces my death times cuz i can actually escape, but i used to go for a build very very similar to this until they buffed the E talent
exactly! in a 1v1, its pretty close, but then thrall just starts to out-dps you every single time
and even thrall is the same thing he heals, he damages, and doesnt have a lot of hp for my trait to work too well, and its ALWAYS a loss vs an uther aswell
yeah its just nice, tho the other options r also really nice but i do like this one a bit more
i do agree, because most of the time its not possible to target what the team is targetting specially if its ranged, if the enemy starts focusing you (which almost everyone does) you can achieve anything
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well you might have a point but still hes a bruiser, and someone who is supposed to be dealing % damage and tanks should be scared of him, but most tanks actually defeat him, and almost all bruisers beat him most of the time, he must be able to do something, no? because he does no siege damage, and cant participate in team fights too, is he murky? murky deals more siege damage than malthael at least!
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well yes but i remember losing to a deckard in a 1v1, in a lane, so thats why i said no
yeah the self heal is really laughable but ana is a really strong hero, she is not to be underestimated
not true, im pretty sure malfurion wins a 1v1 on malthael almost all the time, but ill play vs my friend to make sure and reply
if malthael cant mark any hero, the enemy hero wins, as easy as that is, lucio wins if we just keep on fighting and i dont go back, so it still counts as a win for lucio
finally someone agreed with me, phew
well yes not all the healers he loses to, but he does lose to some of the healers, example uther and malfurion and lucio
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healers can outheal his damage because he deals no damage to low hp opponents, so some of the healers will win a 1b1
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would you please take the time to write which heroes you would lose to in 1v1? not in a lane, because i mean malthael can clear a lane pretty fast and go back in the safety of the turrets, but isnt that EXACTLY what murky does aswell? why should we have 2 heroes with the same exact play style then?
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still, this doesnt mean that he wouldnt lose all the 1v1s in the world
and yes falst, tychus, valeera, and zeratul are the most annoying for me aswell, maybe some more heroes aswell, but these days, there have been almost all heroes that are annoying for me, literally!
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same goes here!
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your words here achieve nothing, because you are saying that if he cant duel, then just switch lanes, which is what all other weak heroes do too, (like healers and murky included), so is malthael weak? is that what you are trying to say
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yeah well thats what im trying to say, a very very high rank malthael can beat a normal rank for example xul, and thats what the list is about, if you wanna beat a normal ranked healer as malthael, you must be very high ranked, because some healers just do better than malthael
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yeah thats also a big big problem, malthaelâs weakness is lack of siege damage, lack of health and the fact that he cant heal if he doesnt mark anyone, so he has a lot of downsides, and he gets kited by ranged, but what upsides? he deals a lot of % damage, a LOOOT of AoE, but then what? literally abolutely nothing, and his % damage doesnt really achieve anything when the enemy only has 1 tank, and even tanks win a 1v1 vs malthael, i think he deserves something more than that.
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well look what i said top, if he cant 1v1 too, then maybe he deserves a some sort of advantage that can replace his inability to 1v1, like something good, maybe like make him better vs tanks, or remove one of his disadvantages, like he is too weak in his current state!!
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at level 20 maybe, but on lower levels its always less thant 50% hp, even by hitting all 4 heroes with the same auto attack
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nope, not accepting it, because there r just too many reasons that show that malthael is weak, he needs a buff and that is very apparent
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level 48, i did mention on the very top, also i play on bronze league, bronze 5 to be exact, and still get melted a lot
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You can say this about every hero.
Malthael fact that he is played in high elo. You can use him to dominate in low elo and he is decent in mid elo
All with good winrates accourding to fellow posters means he is in a good spot
I just mentioned it for clarity. Not really for you.
Yes.
I actually used E for no reason tho.
Yea, but I actually messed up. I took unnecessary dmg, I just lazily done it late at night to see how it effective you can be. It can be
But both your hp and mana will suffer less from the camp (which I did at lvl 4) if you lvl up. And 40% mana and 70% hp should be enough to keep Yrel from stealing your camp while one ally goes for your help.
Malthael is highly effective at getting Bruiser camps imo.
Not sure if you know it or not, but Talents often provide help in things your Hero is not designed to do with their base kit. Die Alone is like that.
With Massacre (lvl 7 W) talent, itâs an aoe, and as I said, there are talents that buff certain weakspots of Heroes, like giving Unstoppable to Heroes who are not that. Lifesteal to Heroes without it. CC to Heroes who had none before.
I already listed which is right or wrong here, read it pls.
What I do is just not AAing and dodging stuff with my W, plus engaging/escaping with FtR. Post a replay and I might be able to help you, but my first comment was this: watch others (ppl who are good with him) play as Malthael. Master streamers.
Iâm kinda a Diablo main and I can outheal Last Rite with AA build, thatâs why I can beleive it Diablo wins.
And I never lost against. Your abilities (which are at which rank btw?) donât define a Hero.
At which rank do you play?
2% hp is actually pretty low dmg. You can use it every 5 sec (wasting mana) so you deal 0.4% dmg/sec and 3000 hpâs 2% is still just 60 extra dmg (12 dps).
I only need Die Alone nad LR against her, I think Cold Hand is more effective.
But AA requires a lot shorter range, you can be Blinded so no Trait spread. Like against Valeera, you obviously lose without TS.
You really need to listen to master players and great Malthael players because so far, youâre not getting it.
First off, Mortality works fantastically with Massacre and Tormented Souls. You get 2 Wraith Strike resets and the AoE from Massacre applies the bonus 8% dmg from Mortality. Itâs not just a single target at that point. And, with a proper team comp, it gets insane Video.
Malthael excels at doing siege damage, just not structure damage. Get camps and rotate a lot. Not winning the 1v1 doesnât mean that heâs weak, it means that he has bigger priority than staying in a single lane like Imperius and Chen would do.
âtbh i only die a lotâ
Yeah, no. Iâm not buying it.
Taking out ranged dps is not your job. You can always go for them when they move forward to hit one of your teamates. But picking a talent specifically to be good agaisnt ranged is a waste. If your enemies are being hit by your Max range E, then you donât need the talent because theyâre not dodging, and youâll hit them anyway.
Look at the pick rate of the talent.
Itâs almost never picked. Usually niche talents would have a low pick rate with a high win rate, but this one also wins less than half the time. So itâs just a bad talent. And when players do pick it, itâs because they donât want to engage, and just want to poke with the lower mana cost, due to too much range dps on the enemy team.
Why is the cooldown an issue?
You complained that youâre not winning 1v1, you canât have both. And again, you donât need âThrowing shadeâ to win teamfights. When your enemies are busy fighting hitting them with E is easy, the extra range makes no difference.
I need to see a few of your replays. Because, like I showed, this talent wins less and is picked less. The 2% damage if it hits doesnât make up for how inconsistent it is.
I donât think you mean âDie aloneâ here. It doesnât help you escape at all. It raises the damage of your Q. Youâre probably talking about a different talent.
Your team should be focusing the target that your tank uses CC on . And if the target is CCâed (stunned, slowed etc) then they cannot escape you. If you focus a tank while you try to focus the tank, what usually happens is that both targets survive. You should be waiting for your tank to engage before you attack a target.
The only thing I can tell you is that you canât expect to have things improve if you donât change anything. So if you keep playing the same way and picking the same talents, you will get the same results. If you want to win more, then you need to stop picking âThrowing shadeâ and .Deathâs reach" every game.
I and other players are winning more than you, and not picking these talents. We canât argue with the numbers. If I lost most of my games with my build, iâd say itâs up for debate. But Iâm not.
So pick fear the reaper and die alone for 10 games, and see the difference (And remember to activate Fear the reaper)
Malthael is a laning monster. Heâs literally one of the best laners in the game. If you lost to Deckard Cain, easily one of the worst laners in the game, then either you really dropped the ball or you got smurfed on.
Iâd thought you were talking about a duel, where the two heroes are the only ones fighting, because Malthael does not shine there.
If youâre losing in lane, the problem definitely lies more with you than with Malthael.
Sheâs literally only scary if she picked advanced optics at level 20 and has stacked up a ton of Vampiric Rounds, which is not very common.
He does not unless thereâs a massive skill difference. Malfurion does diddly-over-squat for damage.
Lucio is annoying, but in no way should he regularly beat Malthael without a significant skill difference.
Iâm curious what the OP thinks is a âlossâ in lane?
If you are killing the wave faster, rotating faster, and the enemy cannot keep up with you then you are winning your lane.
If you mean fighting on a point (ala Braxis) then that is a bit different. Artanis is great at this, but pretty terrible at all the other aspects of being a solo laner â especially compared to Malthael.
Malthael is the best wave clear and rotation solo laner, and one of the better camp takers. He trades efficiently with most solo laners while in lane, and has lots of up-time outside of clearing.
If you are fighting on the point on Dragon Shire or Braxis, then maybe he is middling when it comes to solo laners, but he can also jump the wall with wave+teleport, and can double soak and take the camp â so even that is relative.
Iâm really thinking you donât understand what âwinningâ means for the solo lane position.
Edit: and if you are actually âdyingâ against any single solo character in the entire game other than maybe a higher-skilled Thrall, then you are really really really doing things wrong. The solo lane is more about trading resources and coming out ahead in your job, not about getting kills. You should never die to a single hero while on Malthael. His ability to get away and kite is wayyyyy too good for him to die unless you make a critical mistake.
Yeah, in the name of equal opportunity we should consider many hero 1v1âs work differently in various ranks or MMR, but this is taking it a bit too far.
Deckard/Malf will not win this 1v1 no matter what unless the Malthael is completely braindead. This is taking it to April fools levels even if the match happened in low bronze.
I thought you were supposed to play him like a Zeratul or Murky in the early game, as in get in, ignore your lane opponent, clear the wave, and rotate. Idk about old Malthael but at least now I think heâs less of a duelist (despite what icyveins said) and more of a macro monster.
I think the issue that a lot of people look at Malthael and see the bruiser tag, and then play him like Sonya/Hogger/Imperius or whoever. That will get you killed real fast.
If you were playing Lunara, you wouldnât sit and trade autos with a Raynor. You get your poison, back off, spread it to another target and keep refreshing the DoT damage.
Same thing with Malth. Apply DoT, run away, refresh it when it gets low. Cause you are right, you have low health for a bruiser. But you also have a 5 second CD teleport thatâs just point and click. So use it. W is a reposition tool, not a damage tool. (I mean refreshing trait duration does do damage, but if they are within aa range, then there is no point in using wraith strike, except to reposition). W only does 59 damage at a base. A single auto will do more.
Use W to reposition, juke skillshots, dodge cc and refresh/add marks. With unstoppable at 13, movespeed and ignoring unit collision on 1, and W, Malthael becomes real tricky to lock down.
This is mostly correct. Your job as Malthael in the early game is literally just to be a lane-bully, forcing your opponent to choose between engaging you in the minion waves (where you have the advantage) or losing out on exp. If you donât have an opponent in the lane with you, or your opponent is as good a lane bully as you are (i.e. Sonya or pre-nerf Imperius), then you just speed-clear the wave and back up.
Either way, you are basically never supposed to be 1v1ing people outside of lanes (at least until you have ult), because thatâs just not one of Malthaelâs strengths.
Why not? If you know their solo split pusher will rotate that way and you can beat him/her. You can hide and kill him
Done that plenty of times succesfully
Even if I dont kill them if I can get them low enough to force them to hearth or miss the minion wave. I find this worth it
