Exactly. Life line, not XP boost. It could have an added function to kill camps. I wouldn’t mind, aslong as he loses the xp on that lane. A trade off.
Yes i know, that’s why i mentioned it.
because as soon as he gets lava wave, every 2 minutes he gets a massive “catch-up” single handedly. So it acts as both a boost and a forgiveness. Forgiveness because it forgives you for not being able to keep up with the opponent off-laner.
So it makes you keep up with the opponent off-laner and boosts your own lane you’re on.
2 for 1.
I also said this at the start:
if it’s possible to alter in this way… so he gets 50% of the xp instead of everything. Work man… let the players work a little… this aint kindergarden… let people work… let the players WORK dammit… Am i really so wrong for wanting people to actually earn their progress?
rag must work much harder than most bruisers to do something in team fights. Its funny for you to think that players are doing nothing while using lava wave. At anything above garbage league, rag is quite squishy. If you want to nerf lava wave (which could be an idea, could be tested) you have to buff something else in his kit to make up for it. He’s far from op and is fairly rarely played in masters and above.
None of these are what I mean, or what I even said. I said LAVA WAVE DOES NOT WIN GAMES OR START A COMEBACK. Octograb wins games and starts comebacks, so does devouring maw and stim drone and almost any other ult, with VERY few exceptions. even nydus network, an ult that does nothing to enemy heroes, can be used by a great zagara to control the macro game 10x better than any lava wave.
Karabars I thought you paid more attention to posts as a regular member here. I’m talking about losing TEAMFIGHTS, not the game. There is a world of difference if your team is struggling in teamfights but is macroing decently, or they’re doing well in teamfigts but they can’t tend to lanes. Micro and macro, 2 fundamental aspects of any moba. Rag has one macro ult and one micro ult. Pick whichever your team needs. Simple.
And as I said, lava wave does nearly nothing to most objectives. Maybe tomb of the spooder lady and zergo map but it’s nullified by every other obj. Besides why would I pick Lava wave to counter enemy pushes if I just deny them with Sulfuras Smash?
Another point nobody said is that you are technically comparing 1 lava wave with 2 Sulfuras smashes since the CD is so short. Imo Sulfuras Smash looks much better when u compare it like that. Twice the ult
Lava Wave provides XP which can give number advantage vie lvls.
It also removes a lane your team needs to take care for, so it makes the enemy split or pushed, which gets even more value.
It also counters CH and a few other objs on a single lane.
And unlike SS, it’s undodgable, uncounterable.
There is a reason why it’s the more popular and susccessful Heroic, even if SS goes brrr and can wombo you to some feelsgood tf/match wins.
But you trade it for what? You already have good wave clear.
Yes, but there’s a price for that. You get no team fighting power spike at all at 10. Lava wave is super strong at lower levels, where people ignore their lanes being pushed. But every time you win a team fight, if you destroy a structure, you’ll have no problem keeping up with it.
But that’s how lava wave wins, by your opponent not doing anything about the push lol. Basically, the less awareness your opponents have, the better lava Wave gets. In Bronze it’s an auto win. But that applies to a lot of things, so we can’t nerf for that reason alone.
You’re in bot lane, your team has a camp top.
Opponents are bot with you so you lava wave top. You get the XP AND you get the insane pressure on top. What were you doing again? Ah yeah you were bot going back and forth with your team trying to start a fight so top could do its work.
This is wrong.
During the third objective and so fourth, a well timed Lava Wave gives 25% of a level up at lvl 12, which comes in handy by getting a talent tier advantage and be already in place to force a team fight and win the objective before it even started.
See now you are bringing up the theoretical parts of the ult because you can’t reply to my latest statement, which is the first thing I said in this thread.
I don’t care about winrates, I AM THE RAG MAIN, and when I use SS, I somehow get a fat winrate. Shocking.
Past lvl 20 xp is meaningless, and before that it’s only so much. It can’t equate to half a level with perfect timing.
It may help me clear lanes, but if I have teammates who check up on them a bit even, then macro is no issue. May I remind you that you can clear a wave in less than a second with rag at lvl 13 with perfect W and Q?
If even 1 hero or camp is on that Lane which is nearly every scenario, the lava wave can’t do anything. And as I said I’d rather pick SS to aid my teammates WHO LOST THE OBJ because they can’t TF. The obj IS 3 TRIBUTES and what do I pick? The ult that does not win them teamfights. How clever.
Theoretical. Alot of things are uncountable in this game if u look for them, but only the 120 sec ult is the bad one.
I could not care less about the winrates. Lower leagues win more with lava wave, and it’s a fact we both know. Lava wave is counterable by the most basic mechanic in the game : tending to lanes a bit more
So would you claim Azmodan is op as well, because he can send a commander to pressure the top lane while fighting bottom? Any other hero with the ability for split-pushing could achieve the same.
they might get a stagger kill and get lvl 13 faster
1 less ult
not guaranteed to win the teamfight
This is so specific i don’t understand why you mentioned it. Why get a CHANCE to be a lvl ahead to get a CHANCE to win a teamfight when I could just pick the teamfight ult. By this logic, SS gets kills, hence it gets exp. What it’s suddenly better. ???
Not really, because if Azmodan takes Chain of Command (13), his commander can clear the wave easy, because it boosts minions. It’s a nice pressure to lane on his trait and he also get his heroic in teamfights, so it’s not really an disadvantage for Azmo to not get exp from his trait. I generall take this talent, if I go for demon build including demon invasion.
You can do similar plays with Falstad or Dehaka. But if you have a camp in the opposite lane, then you have the advantage whether your team has lava wave or not. That’s why you would have timed the camp, and drawn out the fight in the first place.
He’s talking about the effect of Lava Wave on the objectives themselves, Immortal, DK, Punisher etc.
Yes but imagine if it gave xp. I think Azmo minions is balanced. He creates a push in the true sense of the word “Pressure”.
Not deletes and rewards with xp like some kind of cheat code like lava wave.
Consider the fact that getting a talent tier advantage and being grouped while the enemy offlaner, global or not, has to catch up is being favorable for your team to win the forced fight.
Sulfuras Smash has a chance to miss, therefore riskier than what the lvl 13 brings for your team.
I wouldn’t mind it honestly, if he would, but Ragnaros’ wave is a heroic, while Azmos demon isn’t. Azmo has both his trait and his heroic, but Rag is the squishiest bruiser of all and he has to fight without a heroic, if he takes wave.