I still think the xp this ult gives should be nerfed by atleast 50%. I don’t know if it can be altered in this way but almost any match where ragnaros is the xp contribution always looks like:
50’000xp vs 17’000-25’000xp
You can’t win in XP soak to give your team the XP lead when there’s a lava wave user.
Ragnaros players should learn how to have awareness and double soak or stop playing him.
I seriously don’t get how this ult is a thing that yields xp at all.
Use lava wave to clear the lane = at the cost of not getting the XP of all minions it killed.
Or it should leave xp globes that he should go around and pick up.
Solution could be:
Lava wave does more dmg to minions and camps but yields no xp. a baseline change.
Pick it if u wanna clear a lane and lose the xp in the prossess.
Like a life line in “who wants to be a milionaire?”. Use the lava wave, waste a life line.
You clear the lane pressure at the cost of losing the xp. simple…
Even though it’s true you can’t win the soak race against Lava wave or Vikings, but you don’t need it. I am a Rag player myself and I use lava wave, but I experienced more games than not Rag’s soak isn’t much greater than other good pushers, it’s only the numbers that are higher, but the real effect isn’t that much. That’s why the good rags tends to prefer S.S.
You also have to consider that, if Rag chooses the wave, he becomes an slightly better Aba clone in teamfights. I don’t say Lava wave is bad, but it’s overstimated.
A Heroic ability that’s almost completely useless in teamfights is a pretty big weakness, my dude. Doing a 5v5 with only 4 Heroics is a pretty risky endeavor.
But how would you change them without ruining their playstyle?
He would need more adjustments than just that, because losing a heroic ability on a hero, who struggles being a frontline compared to other bruisers… is hard enough. But maybe we could change wave to that he throws waves at all lanes, but without giving exp and remove the cdr talent on 20? Then it would be still a huge wave clear on all lanes, but it doesn’t grant you exp anymore and also on huge cd.
They’re handing out improved wave clear like candy for the past two years of reworks so it’s not really that impactful. LW might make a winning difference when matches last 25 minutes or longer, in a situation where your enemy is forced to choose between contesting an objective or clearing a large group of catapults on the opposite end.
Usually it’s nothing that can’t be worked around with little coordination. Quick match players usually don’t rotate correctly after level 20. They will flock around or pose within enemy vision radius doing nothing instead of pushing out lanes together so they can safely buy another ~45 seconds for their core.
Players that are familiar with proper minion wave timings on different maps don’t gain a significant, game breaking advantage compared to their XP farmer counterparts who use the ultimate to inflate their stats, but it can make a big difference if your team manages to hold out for very long with a hero suffering from reduced team fighting potential.
Not really… He can build the build he wants and go lava wave.
Like Valla… she could go whichever build she wants and pick whichever ult that she wants as a combination. If she needs stun she picks stun ult but she’s still playing the build she picked.
I’m thinkin like this… You see that the opponents pick for instance Xul and Azmodan. You predict that they will push alot. If your team doest build around it but you pick Ragnaros as the only one.
Your lava wave should be a sort of “anti-push” ult. Not a “here… have a million gold for being splendidly idle”
Aba clone is an untalented hero clone. Ragnaros is certainly not untalented when he’s in a fight whichever ult he picks.
It doesn’t matter if i’m salty or not. I have won countless of times of a 40-50k xp lava wave ragnaros and i have lost aswell. It doesn’t change the fact that he gets xp for being idle…
Valla is an assassine and has a different purpose than Rag, who is a bruiser.
While Azmodan is also an assassine and the devs change him towards pvp, but his kit is different and he is still a specialist. Xul is a bruiser and a good comparison against Rag. I would say Xul can easily compete with Rag and his wave and he also have a good teamfight presence.
Lava Wave =/= Vikings.
Lava Wave is without a counter. Vikings are killable.
Vikings actively soak. LW kills and gathers xp passively (Vikigns are not that good at waveclear btw).
So you just make their dmg a bit less good. And they can still soak.
Cuz Lava Wave is not op because of the XP, it’s op because you also remove the whole lane’s minions.
But you can’t ignore roles, if you discuss things like that.
I just replied to your comment. Yes wave is an anti-push heroic, but it’s comes with the price to weaken your teamfight presence with it’s colossal. When I replied to Karabars I mentioned Vikings. He is similar to Lava wave, because his whole strength lays in makro, he is even better than lava wave, but harder to play. You could see lava wave as a tech choice against heroes like Vikings, who are unbeatable in exp like Rag’s wave in raw numbers.
Not so easy if they are good, but this simple hero enables something none else can. His team can do better rotations, because soak is completely covered. I don’t know how this is “countered” by killing Vikings.
Yes, but it’s also an heroic on a huge cooldown, while Vikings can always soak on three lanes. A big difference.
Fine entertain the idea then. Let’s say your team doesn’t have ANY lane pusher nor any globals. But opponents have a Ragnaros with lava wave. You could easily play around with that “role” argument.
So an ult to counter Vikings which is 1 hero, when there is no vikings it still works as if there is vikings… gotcha’…
true, a good viking is hard to kill. but i would rather a “hunter” type hero dealt with vikings than revolving one heroes ult into countering a viking.
Use lava wave relative to the objective, as soon as you see enemy team abandon the lane furthest away from it. Try releasing it at a proper moment so you ideally catch an additional minion wave if possible so your own wave gets bigger to overwhelm enemy structures. You want as many of your units dying to their wall.
The ability was made slightly less potent with the latest xp orb adjustment, so your enemy gets denied only 75% instead of the original 100% soak value in most cases. Again, it is a barely noticeable difference, but as with every advantage in the game, these things only add up over time. Being one talent behind for 10 seconds is usually enough to yield an objective.
Lave wave can really help your team out if they have better laners though.You may not get the XP from their minions, but you start to flood the lanes and they have to constantly be defending at that point because you have ended almost all lane pressure on your team.
Now you can concentrate on camps and objectives, rather than worrying about a fort, keep or core getting overrun.
Sometimes that breathing room is the difference between winning or losing.