Kael has been a priority ban for nearly 4 years

General Discussion
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Except we know this is false as these constant changes made for low skill players have caused more and more players to leave. HOTS is at its lowest point pretty much ever currently. More casual players like yourself won’t notice a difference because you play too infrequently and at too low of a level to notice anything. However looking at data tells us a different story.

yea and the competitive scene is what survived and kept the game going, NOT the casual scene. the idea that casual scenes are REQUIRED to keep people playing is fantasy.

We know this isn’t true as HOTS popularity steadily grew until the dev team kept bending over for low skill players. Then numbers started to decline, leading to the eventual cancellation of HGC.

Not sure if this is a joke but it regularly makes top 3 entrant numbers and viewer numbers at Evo. https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/94zb0c/evo_2018_finals_twitchtv_peak_viewer_counts_stats/. Pretty much all Melee tournament over the course of a year (everything from locals, to majors to super majors) are grassroots in nature, run by players for players instead of Nintendo. Yet numbers are really only beat by games like SF5, a game SPONSORED AND ENDORSED BY CAPCOM ITSELF. That is the very definition of thriving.

The only games that beat it are Dragon Ball FighterZ (which is INSANELY popular) and Street Fighter (which is an FGC staple and has official backing from Capcom).

actually a decent amount of people still buy copies so they can get into it precisely because the competitive scene is still so strong.

Nope. Numbers already debunk this.

Because Nintendo chooses not to. all it would take is official support and they’d have even more sponsors at events, making them even more money. Nintendo has been approached several times and offered opportunities to sponsor events, which would increase their reputation and money.|

What Heroes needs is a DEDICATED playerbase. Long time players are the ones buying your stuff. hyper casuals coming from league of legends to ruin QM and unranked queue for an hour don’t buy cosmetics.

because they tried to service both skilled players and hyper casuals. if they had largely abandoned the hyper casuals and focused on skilled play, HOTS would be in a golden age right now, consisting largely of people wanting to play better and get better at the game over all. Player numbers and viewership would be at an all time high and the game might actually present itself as a real contender in the MOBA market.

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84

This is a misconception. Clumping is actually ideal, but AoE must be accounted for. So the ideal situation is to make a formation as tight as possible without multiple targets being hit.

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This is 100% a fact and the lower skill players will not notice this because of the larger population of less skill players.

But many high ranking players - including myself and many of my friends and even people on this forum have noticed a huge increase in que times at higher ends on the bracket.

You’ll never notice because you’re a lower skilled player and dont have the experience, awareness, and knowledge that we have of this.

Not that’s not meant to be insulting. But trying to tell us that everything is fine and this is a good thing that heroes are being balance around a low skill floor is going to fall on deaf ears.

We play mobas to be competitive. We understand the competitive markets and communities than someone who plays casually.

So dont dare to tell us what is and isnt healthy for a competitive game to thrive and be successful.

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What i meant by melee, is that all his abilities besides the lvl 20 flamestrike range increase, he needs to be in a garrosh/diablo range to cast them. Which means he can be ganked easily

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Man, I really wish we had a full on system in Heroes like Warcraft 3 where we could see the stats on players.

We KNOW that 80% of the player base is in Silver, Gold and Platinum. Full stop.

That either means a massively disproportionate number of players in this thread are lying out their asses to try to put people down and make themselves feel better or (the one I find less likely) a disproportionate number of Master+ players posting on the forum.

While I DO think better players are more inclined to give feedback, I suspect this thread flies in the face of that number of players.

Doing what’s right for the game is doing what’s right for the majority of players.

TBH — I kind of wish instead of having Blizzard divide into the Live Team (people who work on released content) and the Dev Team (people who work on new content); they should have divided into the Casual and Pro groups having certain balance measures focused on the high end.

Whats good Balance for S-G-P (Silver, Gold and Plat) is not good balance for Master+

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Would it matter? He’s right regardless of rank.

But hey, ill freely admit I’m not a master rank nor a hardcore elite player.

No its not and I’m pretty sure uncle and i schooled you on this very topic. You don’t understand the competitive market, the community or what makes a competitive game thrive or die.

And one of the way it does die is appealing to badly skilled players. [quote=“Lighthammer-1954, post:87, topic:14525”]
Whats good Balance for S-G-P (Silver, Gold and Plat) is not good balance for Master+
[/quote]

This is just a strawman fallacy. Nobody has suggested balancing around 8% of the community.

And it’s just as stupid to balance around the majority of bad players.

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Players becoming better on their own do make the game more appealing to play.

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Didn’t I play with you today? Braxxis holdout, we had that D.va player who died 8 times and raged at everyone?

Anyway, looking at Kael’thas’s statistics tell me that he’s going to be nerfed back into oblivion because his popularity has soared to ridiculous levels (winrate remains meh), which is kind of sad imo cause I really don’t think that he’s that good.

Still it can’t be denied that ignite has basically taken over the talent tier at 16, so I’m guessing that it will be taken away. :frowning_face:

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Kaelthas is a hero that does better the dumber your team is. Hence why he is a thing at Gold and lower but the higher the player rank the less relevant he becomes. In other words the people that complain about him the most are showing their bronze colors.

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93

You just don’t get that the competitive market for this game is what basically made it dead on arrival.

In ANY game there’s always a struggle between what the top 0.1% want, the following 10% percent who are good enough to be considered semi pro, the following 80% who make up a games population and the lower 10% who are often learning and/or not serious about the game.

When you prioritize balance around the top 0.1% you’re not doing yourself any favors from a development standpoint. You’re not making a game that caters towards the majority.

A given character should never be designed that only that top 0.1% benefits from it. Ultimately, they aren’t the ones making you money.

The top 0.1% will often show you flaws you never could have considered, but part of the problem in the design process is trying to cater towards the top 0.1% when you yourself aren’t able to play at that level.

As a developer, you can only make something good for the level you’re at or around. That’s probably a reality that’s setting in just now with this dev team.

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Or maybe Master+ players are more invested in the game and more likely to be here.

KT wasnt a problem when i was in Silver and isnt a problem now in Diamond.

Players below Platinum generally also dont know how to time camps correctly, should we nerf camps?

For fun i played KT vs Alexstrasza yesterday in Plat TL, they stayed in the heal even when i put a flamestrike there, didnt try to dodge them with no cc on them generall and stepped into the heal close to their thmeammates when they had living bomb.

Game ended with me MVP because i had 126k hero dmg because after 20 they spread the infinitrly spreading bomb like they just saw KT for the first time, even in AI my teammates know nit to spread it so i have no idea what was going on.

Also nerf Butcher, hes unstoppable if he isnt countered.

Also how is LiLi #8 on the most banned list in lower ranks?

Also Hotslogs is really unreliable when it comes to low ranks, most games arent uploaded and it shows that all heroes are below 50% wr in Plat or lower, the ranks are inflated.

I was Diamond on HotSLogs when i was gold ingame, so are most gold players.

US and EU rank distribution on HotSLogs is

Master 12%
Diamond 46%
Platinum 21%
Gold 4%
Silver 3%
Bronze 12%

So using that as a indicator for bans in certain ranks is a bad idea,the distribution is reversed.

Basically you have to only take out Master rank and include Diamond on HotSLogs to the bans and such if you want to include gold and plat i think.

KT might just get banned for being a popular pick as he has great waveclear with good mana sustain.

Varian and LiLi seem to suffer from the same thing but not as extreme.

Any hero that gets popular gets banned, Genji is still getting banned for being annoying, for example if nothing pops into my mind on the third ban i just ban Genji because why not.

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Nah, gross eyebrows.

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And i can assure you that you are in a very small minority of the overall player base. The vast majority of players are not in master league. The game should not be balanced based on the very highest tier of play.

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We tried that and game failed… If we had balanced game around pro and in general higher level play we would’ve had way more viable heroes. Instead high end play was stuck to few dozen heroes precisely because devs kept catering to woodleaguers which made games boring to watch as it was the same heroes every game.

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DUDE. STOP. BEING. INTELLECTUALLY. DISHONEST.

I literally said this in last post.

Nobody here has suggested to only balance around the top players.

Alright? Get it through your head already.

Just because people don’t want the game balance around bad players - that doesn’t automatically mean It’s “HUR DURR. BALANCE ONLY AROUND THE TOP 8%”

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99

I swear, if my teammates were as good at running away from the team with Living Bomb on them as they are with Nano Boost, I’d have a much easier time.

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What do you mean?
The eyebrows make him cuter.

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I totally disagree.

KT is banned in low rank games.

Get your rank up and you’ll see different bans.

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That’s not carry xD that’s QM noobs having no idea how to counter him. If you’re plat+ you don’t see KT or barely sees him. Most of them can easily walk out of flamestrike which has a 1.5 second cast time, they barely spread the bomb, the only time they do so, is when they know they’re gonna get a kill without dying cuz they won’t lose much health after spreading 1 single bomb. They have 100 ways to counter your pyroblast with spell armor/stasis or just keep interrupting your channel and kill you. Honestly kt is only considered good under plat cuz people don’t know how to counter him and they just enjoy spreading the bomb to their allies.

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The title of this topic is wrong.

KT went up in draft priority a year ago when they buffed his q and w damage.

Before that it was really rare to see KT being considered a threat.