Kael has been a priority ban for nearly 4 years


#63

Jaina even had pro stats on her side (highest mage popularity in pro games and highest winrate for a LONG time) and I’ve literally never seen a thread on her by these lower skilled players.

People legit think their experience in silver 4 QM is an accurate assessment of hero strength.


#64

I would think seeing a kealthas on any opposite team would make tracer, or valeera (with her 2.5 second silence thats always up) or Butcher would love kealthas. He has no escapes and he needs his team to protect him or hug the base.

BTW do any of you ever take spell shield ? ever ???


#65

Hailfail only plays QM therefor lacks the experience of a MOBA.

Quickmatch is not a MOBA. It’s a joke of a mode that ruins everything that MOBAs stand for.


#66

I played Kael’thas today and dominated. I wish I could say it was because of my awesome skills, but I can’t.

Sadly it seemed that the enemy team players have no idea how to play against Kael’thas, a mage that has been in this game for years.

Front-line just charged in with no plan or follow up and had to run back to their team with a bomb they spread to their teammates. I never once felt pressured and I should have, against a Diablo, Greymane, and ETC.

My flamestrikes hit the enemy team Raynor because his positioning was awful and he didn’t stutter step. I also got to punish the Whitemane pick, every time she W’d I 'd flamestrike her and gave my pyroblast some good value.

Enemy team also seemed to enjoy trying to fight us bunched up in confined spaces so that helped me spread my bombs more.


#67

Nope! this is actually a popular argument from people who don’t play many competitive games and those who play very casually. However the reality is that changes based around skilled play eventually trickle down to lower skill play (via encouraging players to play better, learn more heroes, etc). This is because people realize that their only method of climbing is to increase their skill level (it also doesn’t help that high skill streamers will often shown how effective playing better can be).

But the majority of people are not going to climb. The majority don’t care about climbing. The majority don’t even play hero league. They will play the game while it is fun for them and then move on once it stops being fun. This is not a matter of balancing to promote a high level competitive game; it’s about keeping the game alive.

The problem is you keep trying to using a logical fallacy known as “Appeal to the majority”. You think a majority of players being bad means things just need to be balanced around their badness. However that is an arbitrary assumption that has no basis in anything objective.

Just because you balance one element for low level players does not mean that you need to balance everything for them. The ability is factually oppressive for players at low levels. At high levels it is such a non-issue that people will almost never spread the bomb. So, what is the harm in changing it?


#68

Kael is just too awesome from the start. Huge damage…Huge are of effect…almost no cooldowns…very little mana concerns…just Huge.


#69

with kael i can CARRY QM a lot :sob:

Change my mind :smile:

When i hit level 16 i become nearly a god and at 20 you are very Dangerous from far away


#70

Right but that’s because they don’t need to. they can just complain that hero X or talent Y is OP until the devs nerf them.

You can still become a better player without playing ranked. a lot of professional fighting game players don’t play ranked modes all that much (opting instead for training mode and just going to tournaments) and are the best at the games they play.

Right and a competitive game where there is no incentive to get better stops being fun after a while. why do you think the HOTS population is so low? hyper casuals aren’t gonna stay around for long when they have no reason to get better and skilled players get driven off by the devs every time the game gets ridiculous nerfs.

Competition keeps competitive games alive. Super Smash Brothers Melee came out over 17 years ago. It has no online modes, no devs constantly nerfing characters and no casual scene whatsoever. Nintendo often chooses to ignore its existence entirely and gives it no official support in tournaments. Yet it has always second or third highest in terms of number of entrants and viewerships at Evo (the biggest fighting game tournament in north america). How can this be? How can a game with no official support and no casual scene thrive? Because a strong competitive scene can single-handedly drive a game forward.

The problem is that this affects skilled play. nerfing heroes for low level players might make a hero a bit less popular in those leagues, but it might outright kill that character’s viability entirely in high level play. Low character diversity in high level play can kill viewership, which in turn kills the competitive scene.

it’s only seen as oppressive because people refuse to get better. at high level play, living bomb still does damage and still poses a threat via forcing people to split from each other. removing that threat makes the ability bad, which in turn can decrease KT’s viability in high level play period.


#71

The reason Kael is still a priority ban is not because he is OP in any way, it is a reflection of the skill level of the player base and the dynamics of hero league.

In HL you have no idea what the competency is of each player on your team. And there are certain heroes like Kael that have an overwhelming advantage against low skill players because not only does he supply ample AOE hero damage and waveclear, but his skills are relatively easy to use and his bomb severely punishes bad positioning and awareness (a common flaw in the lower ranks).

When I was ranking up I saw constant Kael bans through Silver and Gold, and I was totally fine with that. And once I moved up to Platinum I rarely if ever saw him banned, and when he was picked he was no more or less oppressive than any other well-played mage.

I think this sums it up well.


#72

You can keel him under to control hella good with Chromie ---- oh wait, this is post nerf.

Nope. I’m forced to agree wit you!

The only think that stops this in QM carry is when you have your Ghost Leo Assault the core till its dead. Even that’s a questionable counter.


#73

Kinda funny how many QM mains like to talk about “high level play” lol


#74

Myself enjoy the game most when I know the game is balanced around the Heroes’ highest potential and not around me.
But I’m weird because I’m the only one who asks for nerfs for his mains, lol.
I just like if something is fair and I like challenges.
Balancing without caring for the highest peak of performance is just a terribad idea.


#75

The solution is simple, instead of a small fire around the heros torso, make the hero be engulfed by flames and scream in agony so even the worst players know its a bad idea to spread it around or go close.

Except for Whitemane, instead of agonizing screams she will laugh like a lunatic and scream “IT TICKLES! HAHAHAHHAHAHA”

Oh yeah and Ragnaros will scream his voiceline “Im on fire”


#76

Please don’t reduce KT’s popularity. I like having a good reason to draft Anub’arak.


#77

How would that help? It’s already the blind and deaf people who play the game with one remaining hand on malfunctioning mouse that have trouble with KT. They could have screen flashing red, flames on the sides of monitor, dot ticking health bar that would also be in flames, volume upped to max with burning agonizing sounds and they would still be clueless about having bomb and spreading it like it was their mission in life.


#78

the crazy thing is you are SSS TIER for attack, if they defend their fort they will explode all, the flamestrike is so Dangerous, and easy to land (even more at 20).

And for defend the fort yourself against pve, or even a team (flamestrike + living bomb once again) you are SSS TIER again !

I have blow up so many team who was pushing in an instant :sob:


#79

I mean, what is and isn’t fun is a matter of opinion. Some people do play games just for the fun of the game. Playing a team game with a group of friends after a long day of work is where Heroes really shines. It’s competitive enough to be interesting but not so much that the worst member of your party is going to tank your game.

It’s interesting that you bring up SMASH because that is what heroes started out as, a lighthearted game to play with friends that is not meant to be taken super seriously. The fact that Blizzard tried to morph it into an eSports spectacle is where things started to divide the audience.

The Smash Melee reference to EVO is also a bit odd. Smash Melee does not thrive and it doesn’t need to. 99% of the people who will buy Smash Melee have already done so. Smash as a tournament fighter has a relatively small but very dedicated following. It doesn’t make Nintendo money directly and that is the important thing to note. Heroes needs a large player base to buy cosmetics in order to make money. Blizzard tried to make money with the hardcore audience but clearly it wasn’t profitable in the long term.


#80

Fun is something that’s ALWAYS going to be subjective, but when an overwhelming number of people agree they don’t think it’s fun, it starts to fall into this region of “Subjectively, Objectively”.

I’d wager the golden ratio is probably in play right now and that somewhere around 80% of the population is sick of seeing Kael needing to be banned to prevent him from getting too powerful due to team mates (or even you’re own mistakes, lets be honest, if you’re telling me you never get hit by it, you’re lying).


#81

Kael just needs his previous buff reverted and he’ll be fine.

Hero Updates

Abilities

  • Flamestrike (Q)
    • Damage increased from 320 to 345
  • Living Bomb (W)
    • Explosion damage increased from 200 to 215

I strongly believe he was buffed just to “keep up” with the top 10, when the top 10 can stand to come down a little.


#82

Appeal to majority is a argumentative fallacy and should be avoided. Besides this a forum and forums are a small section of the community and people who are perfectly happy won’t tell anyone. People who aren’t happy are mostly like to complain.

Besides I can already completely write off multiple forum posters off from having opinions. So the number of people who come here to complain about x heroes dwindles in my case.

When majority of of the playerbase is gold and below.

Their opinions on what is and isn’t considered balance should be taken with a grain salt and mostly ignored. Not that I don’t know amazing gold players who play fair above their rank.

But also majority of the playerbase especially when it comes to Heroes of the Storm more so than every other MOBA.

Are largely ignorant on basic concepts and mechanics of a MOBA and will cry about heroes that other MOBAs already have and been around for years.

They rather cry for nerfs than just getting better. Kael’thas being annoying is not a reason for a nerf. Maybe if people actually spent less time crying because they lack skill and focused on getting better. Kael’thas wouldn’t be much of a problem.

But it seems like if a hero disrupts the mentality of “DPS, DPS, MUH DAMAAAGE KILLLLS” is whined about on these forums. which Kael’thas does disrupt that mentality.

Kael’thas is a balanced hero - whether you like it or not and I don’t care about your subjective opinions. He’s fine.

The fact any of you think it’s perfectly fine to nerf heroes just because they’re annoying is unacceptable and pathetic.