I need help with Sylvanas

Title. I’m a HUGE fan of the character in HotS, and the several ways she can be built, as well as how she fits into almost any comp just fine whether she’d be a first or last pick.

But that’s not what I’m here to ask and talk about. During my playtime, Quick Match and Ranked specifically, I feel absolutely useless to my team. I’m someone who played this game mainly back when Sylvanas was still classified as a specialist, before her big rework, master skin and all to try and main this character. Coming back to the game, I still like this character, but unsure how I can feel useful. Its hard to poke far, since I’ll get poked noticeably harder, and in some cases, bursted down, which is mainly done by the more mobile assassins or annoying bruisers.

“But she’s weak in the early game” you may be saying. To that, I agree, and I can understand dying maybe once at that point, but I still struggle to live in the early game and more specifically, the late game. According to my win rate and stats (for QM), its roughly 50%, but I genuinely don’t know how to fix my errors (please, not a simple “git gud,” that doesn’t really help.) I die a lot in the late game, and I don’t know how to avoid it, even if I leave my escape on hand for an unfavorable fight, I will die 9 times out of 10. I can get the damage as Sylvanas done, however, I die WAY too much before this damage becomes useful, and end up being a detriment to my team than a use.

Can I get any help here, from any experienced people here?

Sylvanas is great at every stage of the game.
Wanna share a replay? (not where you stomp or getting stomped)

1 Like

Part of the tricky part of sylvanas is that she doesn’t really have any defensive talents. Some heroes have better evade, longer poke, self sustain and they get armor, heals or additional escapes by 13 – if not earlier.

So that puts a lot of pressure on sylvanas to either not take damage at all (avoid unnecessary skirmishes) need a hero to hide behind, or to have her burst ready and calculated to annihilate the target before they can respond.

Festering wounds tends to be her defacto 7 talent as it enables hero poke/aoe potential, but it also uses her escape, and it doesn’t function for scouting, so regardless of build a Sylv needs to be ready to stutter evade and avoid face-checking bushes.

On a similar note, a key part of Sylv is having the right talents that compliment how someone plays on a map; her lvl 1 quest gets a lot of attention, but tends to lead players to trading deaths for a few quest stacks that end up not paying off in the end. The attack speed talent or the slow on trait work just as fine, if not better, depending on other pve or pvp aspects of how she builds.

Possession tends to get bad rap by players that think it allows the enemy team to get more exp - it does not - and potentially better minion wave control capabilities than black arrow (converting creeps not only kills them, but flips them to your side. Doing so is fast and relatively safe and can even be used on catapults to stall a lane)

At 7, barbed shot is mostly a trap talent. While the effect does work on pve and pvp objects, a lot of players don’t get all 5 shots onto a target and since the effect only works at 5 shots, they effectively cripple themselves a powerful talent tier.

At 10, wailing tends to get all the hype (an aoe silence wins team fights!) because of it’s on-paper power, but functionally I don’t think it’s as good as others claim. Players tend to use abilities for the sake of using an ability, so while the silence is great, if nobody else follows-up on it, then the enemy team was just mildly inconvenienced for a few seconds. Mind Control isn’t as “zomg awesome” for aoe, but it helps sylvanas with dueling (more common in casual play) and it makes it easier to highlight a “focus this target” to it.

Basic word of advise there: don’t discount Mindcontrol just because it’s not wailing arrow. Arrow is good for breaking/preventing channeling from a distance, but MC is good up close. If a hero is hard diving you anyway, a silence doesn’t really stop it, where mc could help turn the dive, or at least stall long enough to run/wave away.

To try to summarize some tips:
a) Practice on stutter stepping. It’s not just attack and then move, it’s also where/how you move to keep attacking pressure going while also avoiding enemy skill shots.
b) it can be fine to avoid focusing on dealing pvp damage if you can do some pve instead. That doesn’t mean avoid teamfights, but it does mean don’t try to frontline and hope the enemy team will honor an imaginary 1v1 code
c) Try some talent combos on Try Me damage dummies; different players have different rotations and since a lot of sylv’s damage is conditional (spreading dagger, getting 5 barbed shots on 1 target, marking a target, etc etc) some talent choices may actually be undercutting how much damage a player could be doing instead.

By my book, there’s about 3 sylv styles:

  1. aa and dagger the tank (spread damage to the backline)
  2. Wave + Dagger aoe clusters (poke)
  1. Q + Wave bomb. Forego distance and be as on-top of a single target as you can be to ensure Q’s all land on that target.

aa is ‘safer’, dagger aoe spouts pretty numbers, and Q bombs get solo kills, but are super risky as a result.

She tends to see some play in organized/‘pro’ games, so looking up some replays or looking up some streamers that play her can help identify how they stutter, when they engage, how they combo or how they escape fights.

7 Likes

Besides the great post above by Xenterex, Xivilaikhys also posted a very useful one a bit over a week ago.

1 Like

Offtopic - she still borderline OP after FW nerf?

She’s S tier. I wouldn’t say OP though…

Is she like Kael’thas level good or worse?

Better. IMO, Kael’thas isn’t really that good. He relies a little too much on the other team clumping.

But when paired with good CC he’s amazing.

1 Like

On that I can agree. I think Sylvanas is better if she has a frontline and CC on her team. Kael’s kit it just a tad outdated.

Oh and her damage spread is unavoidable, while Kael’s is avoidable.

2 Likes

Shapeshifter linked my thread on a good, safe, build to Sylvanas, so if you want to take a look there I think it would help.

In general, do not play her as a dive hero. While she can have a very Genji like play style I’d avoid it until you’ve mastered using her abilities, teleports and have more of an idea on when to use them.

She is a lot more of a team fighting hero than she was way back then, but still has a ton of pushing power. Do try to do both but still work as a team. Sylvanas is a very good generalist hero that is good in multiple situations so she’s reliable for more than one thing.

Go with her AA/Q build as it is the most safe, allows for a lot of damage, and allows you to have more sustain. I can post a replay here if you want to watch it you can see how this build helps me deal a ton of damage while still being relatively safe.

If you have further questions, please say so, I created that thread for players like you. Players who want to get into Sylvanas but need a reliable build to start off with. Good luck

Here’s the replay:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Nrw1Qq2wPlNFibe0TyavuYPn88w5U19S/view?usp=sharing

1 Like

other than an E talent that lets her teleport 1/2 a screen away… :thinking:
and other talents that increase her movement speed… :thinking:

Are you illiterate? Cuz I wrote more than one sentence and the functional capacity for reading stems from people being able to read more than one line in onder to grasp the entirety of what was written. That’s part of the point of mediums of communication not limited by 125 characters.

So here I am now with a conundrum of wondering if you’re actually capable of reading a reply I would post, or simply wondering why you didn’t read what was written the first time. :thinking:

Regardless of your half-thought smarm, YES, sylvanas is lacking in defensive talents (op kinda points out they die alot if you didn’t read that too.) Double E generally does not boost her defensives but rather compensates for using her E offensively (and then getting back out) or doubling down on the damage reset. Similarly, I doubt players that are just learning a hero are going to attempt to frame-perfect evade pyroblasts, at which point trying to claim (or imply) E is an effective escape (compared to other heroes) is disingenuous.

Similarly, the “movespeed increase” comes at 16 and competes against lifesteal or unstoppable which has a very different opportunity cost compared other ranged heroes that have
a) movespeed sooner (if not baseline)
b) faster evasion or disengage abilities
c) earlier life sustain or more raw hp
d) options to take armor

And before I go on with this, maybe you should take the :thinking: emote and actually use it for yourself instead of posting something that is neither helpful for people looking for help, or insightful as you seem to have chose to have bothered to not read things, and assumed some sort of magical value from that. I won’t daresay it’s not attempting to be entertaining cuz someone is probably going to see the source, your reply and think something is amusing between those.

However, instead of inferring something useful or ironic, you’ve made more a veiled reference of being a jester that doesn’t know the difference between an audience laughing with them, or an audience laughing at them :confused:

She has plenty of escape capability. Her E talent allows her to get out of a lot of tight squeezes.

All the blah blah blah in the world is that your playstyle uses her escape aggressively, then you complain about not having an escape. :thinking: sounds to me like its more a you problem than a sylvanas problem and no amount of text no matter how eloquent will change the fact that this is a play style issue.

YOU CHOOSE to play the hero aggressively using the escape as an engage. Thats on YOU not the hero design.

Yea, do yourself a favor and actually read what people post instead of assuming accordingly and then lashing out of ignorance.

This is a written medium: the content isn’t going anywhere. So it’s on YOU to actually be informed accordingly instead of making terrible assumptions. It’s terribly ironic you want to act like an informed opinion that chooses to ignore what other people write, and then act like you know better.

You don’t. Ignorance isn’t empowering, stop lying to yourself.

I’m sorry what did I miss… :thinking:

You’ve missed 10 paragraphs (that establish content, transition, and other details) You’ve missed contributing anything useful to the OP in favor of just disagreeing with me; you’ve missed having an actual point or offering additional clarification rather than misguided naysay. You’ve missed providing anything unique, useful, valuable, or the reality that I shouldn’t have to point any of this out because the words ARE STILL THERE and you can just go back and read them instead of flubbing 4 times now and pretending you did otherwise.

Stop lying to yourself.

sometimes less is more. you’re main issue is that sylv is defenseless, I say she isn’t she has an e talent that transports her half a screen away. Your issue isn’t hero design its your choice in play style.

Notice I didn’t need 10 paragraphs to state what’s obvious. :thinking:
:woman_shrugging: :man_shrugging: :woman_shrugging: :man_shrugging: :woman_shrugging: :man_shrugging:

When people think something is ‘obvious’ and someone points out they’re wrong, then it’s not so ‘obvious’ to them that they’ll check, but they’ll still claim as otherwise. The emphasis on something being “obvious” doesn’t have any bearing on it being ‘true’ it’s just a lazy answer by people who don’t know otherwise.

Congrats on keeping with the lazy out and continuing to be wrong.
:clap:

For someone who wants to assert ‘less is more’ if you had bothered to read what I wrote in the first place, their wouldn’t be all this “more” that keeps coming up from your willful ignorance. So get over your petty lies and stop trying to rationalize ignorance.

You keep trying to summarize what you think I wrote, but you didn’t actually read it, and that much is “obvious” because you keep drawing wrong conclusions that should be debunked if you read more than the initial sentence.

What is “obvious” is that you didn’t read it, didn’t understand what I actually wrote, aren’t posting something useful, corrective, helpful, or on point with OP’s point of concern.

But despite how obvious all that is, you keep insisting otherwise.
Yes, it doesn’t take 10 paragraphs to see you’re making a fool of yourself, but you seem to still be insisting on wanting “more” before you realize how much ‘less’ there could have to been to all of this is you were sensible, observant and honest.

Obviously that isn’t the case.

When I said you should stop lying, I meant it. If you haven’t figured out how “obvious” that actually is, then that certainly offsets what value you had in stating something to be “obvious” and not knowing the difference between a lazy observation, and something truthful.

Sylvanas will soon be the number 1 strongest hero after she help the jailor a little longer