Probably do the same thing. turn her into a real dps.
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Fair enough. I honestly think we need more healers, I donāt think we need another ranged AA assassin. Iāll admit thatās just my preference. 
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Nah I agree. I would love to see like 3 more healers come out then turn her into a dps but unlikely.
Yeah, we need more healers but i think the way Tyrande heals is not unique and fun enough for many people to miss it. We might get some more interesting Healer as a consequence.
Agreed.
I think the current version has good opportunity costs, but itās a matter of tweaking some numbers or rearranging a few tiers on when something is offered.
Yea, part of the issue of how that ability works is that it holds a key part of her healing kit and isnāt broken by her having Darnassian Archery.
Mending is an Okay concept ā self healing increases her potential survivability and could provide remote healing ā but it tends to be held back that Eluneās Chosen is effectively similar (attacking a target to get heals) and that other trait talents arenāt well regarded. So if other talents are made better, then that can improve how this talent works without changing anything directly to it.
Everlasting Light Iāve math as being a poor choice in several other topics. If using Q on a different target refunded a charge, that would help the appeal as a multi-target ability and soft synergy with other Q talents. On the other hand, (what I havenāt pointed out before) is they could trade it for her semi-cleanse and change the condition that allies need to be healed by both charges of Q to then clear the status.
Needing 2 charges removes how freely she could clear debuffs, but still offers it at an earlier tier than other healers offering unstoppable.
To be fair, many -armor sources have also been nerfed as well, so Blizz were trying to address issues of blow-up compositions and addressing some of the value -armor provides. So I think theyād be reluctant to revert that change unless it is offered as a talent upgrade to increase the debuffs power.
On the other hand, if Trait were changed to match the damage dealt in the duration, then those becomes numbers that show up on Tyrandeās scorecard and provides more āfeel goodā numbers people want from their dps fantasies.
2 Likes
TBH I think she needs her Q to only be a self-heal, and then her level 4 talents that make her heal in an alternative way be buffed. Her Q will never be good enough to keep up with normal healers, just make her a ranged assassin with a talent tier with mandatory passive healing talents
Iāll politely agree to disagree there. I find Tyrande a unique healer and I very much enjoy her play style. I donāt think Iām in the minority, sheās still a popular pick in QM and Ranked.
Itās a big if on how many new healers we will be getting. We can make an educated guess we wonāt be getting that many over the next three years if the hero release schedule of the last two years remains the same.
Even when she was a support she could heal others. So yeah, if you made this change of course she would be even less effective as a healer.
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If you wanted to lazy fix her she would just need more range on everything baseline or MS to use with current range. Her reward for good play is worse than other top healers but her risk is way higher at same time. Itās just messed up ratio of risk and reward.
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Yes there are a lot of negative armour debuffs out there but the majority of them come from late game talents.
The only heroes that provide early game negative armour AND personal burst are valeera and smash varian. Both these heroes are rare though. All other early game armour debuffs come from non-damage dealers like tanks (Malganis or stitches) or tyrande.
This is true, but many more heroes can lower armor now, Stitches, Samuro (level 1 talent) , Qhira, Varian, Valeera, KelāThuzad, Zulājin, many more. This was once fairly unique to Tyrande and it was a potent debuff. I donāt think they need to revert it the old value, even 20 would be a nice start.
Stop reworking heroes into assassins!
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You got my vote! Why would you even need Tyrande as an AA assassin? We have a ton of AA assassins of all varieties already, but we donāt have a gigantic roster of healers.
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I assume that the assembly of assessors assiduously assessed Tyrandeāsā¦ assets and their asseveration assayed an assimilation of description with action. That is to say, they smite one cheek, smite the other cheek, and catch themselves repeating the syllables of the role when viewing tyrandeās rear view.
While the Godd(Ʀ)ss of the Moon is rather particular on how her avatar inspires reverence on her behalf, itās not like Tyrande needs to be a damage dealer to d.eliver p.osterior s.ins.
āIn the name of the moon, I shall punish youā
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lol Xen! Iām out of likes right now, but when they return Iāll be back to give you one for the alliteration alone! 
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You probably donāt know but I sometimes do re-imaginings of the concepts of certain Heroes by applying a flavor I prefer while keeping the original mostly intact.
Back in 2019 I touched Tyrande, with the idea of fixing her very passive and under-performing state and recovering her more aggressive original iteration. So, instead of explaining here, Iāll link you to that thread.
Be aware that thread was for a different time, many thing ought to have changed, and I would probably do things a tad differently today, but overall I believe it still fits. It was also reviewed and approved by a master Tyrande (after many iterations, you can see it was edited 5 times, not counting all pre-post editions).
Anyways, hereās the link: Tyrandeās Rework.
If you feel like reading all that, please do tell me if it fulfills at least partially what you seek.
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Hi Kronoz, thanks for reminding me of your thread, I did participate in it. I liked many of your ideas, but I feel that many were overly complicated and would make Tyrande far too strong. I think autobusik2 summed up my feelings in this post:
Auto goes into more detail than I quoted. I appreciate all the time and detail you put into your ideas, I havenāt attempted to do anything as ambitious here. This is deliberate as I enjoy Tyrandeās playstyle as it is, but I feel she needs some small changes here and there to improve her performance slightly.
Tyrande is still strong, so only small adjustments seem necessary. The one thing we do agree on without reservations is Eluneās Chosen is a problem. I think it just needs to be removed completely or have a weaker version of it baseline. It will always be too competitive.
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Itās also matter of alternative talents being bad to say the least. Everlasting Light makes no sense on single target healer who is practically always using all she has on that single target. It simply makes no sense concept wise.
Eluneās Chosen works both her job as single target, as more healing overall and her basic concept which is all about hitting things for more heals(also works as mana free heal during camps and objectives if enemy isnāt there).
Problem with Mark of Mending is it only works with heroes that have high AS and high health pool. That means itās for AA diablo, Tychus, D.Va and Zarya. Everybody else barely notices the effect since they attack too slow or their max health is too low so it becomes just regen effect for short while basically. To make this thing work it would need way bigger number making it broken on the heroes it currently works. Alternatively give it deckard Ancient Blessing treatment which makes that talent less unique in turn.
I would argue she is one of weakest healers currently. She is barely ever played in master(even less in GM) and she lost the few games she got picked on CCL. Solid 1% popularity in CCL! Her need to constantly AA at normal range with no mobility or survivability tools to bring value is simply way too easy to punish once you start face players that know how to play. If she was one of strongest she would see a lot of play, not one lowest numbers of play and bans. Game is all about Stu, BW, Ana and Uther currently when it comes to healers. All of them provide better CC, heals, utility and in general are reliable and non-conditional heroes.
Also reworked Rehgod was at 75% win-rate at start in master and even after 2 weeks and some minor nerfs he was still at 72% wr. Gotta love how that rework got through their internal testing(people said same stuff on PTR too and devs still released him with no changes) 
2 Likes
When a hero is worthless, something needs to change.
I find her a workable healer/support these days but I really miss the old aggro/half healer Tyrande.
My idea would be to make the aggro build viable through mark talents, thereby letting her sacrifice heal output for Mark power and damage output.
Idea: lvl 1 quest talent to buff Mark by autoing heroes/marked heroes, reward being increasing the armor debuff to the old level. Add a reasonable continuous reward, like increased duration.
Another mark talent - increase cast range but also increase her auto range. I know the cast range is already on the splash talent.
Old aggro shadowstalk can be an active talent on 13 or 16.
Figure some other talent to bring up auto output, maybe merge darnassian and trueshot?
I feel like the main reasons mark talents donāt perform is that a) it is hard for teammates to tell what is marked, b) the talents are in a suboptimal order, and c) mark itself isnāt that strong right now.
Oh, and I believe that moving heal CD from AA CDR to baseline cool down is important to lower her skill floor. Iām sure the numbers can be appropriately tuned.
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I miss Aggro Ty also. Iāve actually soloād a boss with the old Tyrande (Probably why they re-worked her). Yes sheās more reliably mediocre , but she really seems to lack any heights. Old Tyrande I considered a support not a healer , she was capable filling in any gaps in the teams style and helped optimize teamfights. Now ā¦ sheās alright. She can do good numbers with healing but the reward for your effort is wanting.
The Mark nerf definitely stinks, Iād also appreciate it if they brought it back if youāre going with a mark build. Also as a quality of life change a bigger indication of the mark might help (though team mates should know to focus the person with negative armour).
For Owls I think adding a talent where if it hits an enemy hero it reveals an area for a little while (like Hanzoās Sight Arrow) would be nice. Or a talent where if it misses all enemies it gets cool down reduction. They want people to use it for scouting? Make it better for scouting.
1 Like