That’s the point yeah, fun for us as hardcore gamers, not for the show. And the show defines the lifespan of our beloved game…
Me too, I love HOTS.
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I consider myself very fortunate that I have had friends who were high Master players who let me join their games. Perhaps if I hadn’t played with and against players of this skill, I might think I was “stuck”, or my perspective on what makes Hots “fun” would be very different.
Not everyone is as fortunate, playing those matches with Master players, I could easily see the vast skill difference between us. I’ve said it before, but in some of those games I was irrelevant, they could have won with ease if I had just gone AFK in some bush.
IMO, it can be easier to acknowledge or understand the difference between Master/GM for some players of a lower skill level, not by watching streams of GM’s, but by playing games with/against the highest ranks.
*Also, I still remember from the very early days of Hots, players saying in chat that a Valla was “cheating” simply because she was stutter stepping.
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That is certainly a more direct experience. But I was told to be a “bronze noob” in QM by many low ranks to know it’s not a life saving 
I feel scammed every time the game is equal, then one team gets few lucky picks and rushes trough the keeps, walls and remaining heroes to just suicide into core.
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I don’t mind that so much, what kills me is when your team is ahead all game, you have all structures, but someone (or everyone) makes a mistake and your team is effectively wiped. Then the enemy smashes their way to your core and wins.
I also like this aspect, it’s why it’s best to keep trying to win, rather than playing to lose, some games can turn on a dime.
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I can say I have played with Master/GM players and let me tell you, I felt the same way you described. To me, it was psychologically intense. I thought what I was doing was right and helpful just to be criticized for it because everything I was doing was actually wrong lol. It was warm criticism though and I appreciated it because I feel like it added building blocks to make me a better player. Its very intense to be in a game where everyone is better than you. I wish I could go back and play with Master players from a learning standpoint, but I don’t think 9 Master players would want to sit and teach a silver scrub.
Just like how people cheat when they use riot shields in CoD
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Embarassing for you not for me
Elitists like you and Karabars who just sit on their ranks have no idea the hardships that Bronze players go through and your words show it
No one is saying that Fan lost here
You are right about him winning and he did it while playing NAZEEBO of all heroes
So the one who is really embarassing here is YOU!!!
My intention was honestly just to bring some life into these forums while showing players what a lot of Bronze players have to go through and I like to think that I’ve succeeded at that
My words may not be at Xenterex levels but I like to think that I at least put effort into what I type
It’s all about having the right coaches and putting in the right kind of practice(I wish we could play at least some games together so I knew which areas you needed most help in)
I had plenty of help from Platinum, Diamond, Master and even Grand Master players when it came to learning the ropes while most other players will meet a Karabars or a Volun who like to sit on their ranks and make worse players than themselves feel bad for their bad plays instead of actually helping them improve
And this is precisely the reason why Fan is the only high-ranked player who has my admiration
He knows constantly what it’s like to play at Bronze from first-hand experience while the rest of these guys look down on others while sitting on their current ranks
I remember this happening once in ARAM which I played with you and JumpyLion because I was invited by you to do so
You were Hanzo and he was Diablo and me and him were just chatting throughout most of the game
I wholeheartedly admit that I wasn’t giving my best in an ARAM game and to quote you: “there is no shame in that”
Had you communicated to me that you wanted me to give my best in our games, which hero you want me to take and how you want me to help you out then things would have gone differently without a doubt
Instead you chose to be silent about it and we just stopped talking eventually
You are choosing to be loud now on the forums and so I respond with my side of how things went
The people who rank-shame aren’t even that good anyway
Karabars may act like he isn’t being condescending but the reality is that his words simply come-off that way and the fact that he refused to play more with me just because he thought I was bad proves it
And Volun has confessed to playing mostly Healers so he is just a backseat driver at best
And both are too chicken to actually hang out in the Bronze League and try to carry games
Fan’s personality is not for everyone but at least he doesn’t look down on Bronze Leaguers like Volun and Karabars do
That is something that I will always admire about Fan
And he is also patient enough to constantly play in the Bronze League so he knows what it’s like for a lot of us
People can assume whatever they like about Bronze just because it’s the lowest rank but the reality is that it’s the rank that often takes the most patience to play constantly
Yeah
Namely Volun and Karabars
Who are chicken
Which is also a food
Which may give them more thoughts if they go and eat some
I have more words to say but if I chose to reply to each and every post in this topic right now then this reply would be really long so I shall refrain for now
You admire Fan because he’s willing to smash opponents that are much worse than him? That’s odd because that’s one of the reasons why I dislike him. And I say that as someone who think he’s the best player I’ve ever played with. I have no interest in smurfing. I found playing at low gold boring enough on my bro’s account, I don’t need to go even deeper into the clown fiesta. At least when I get bronzes in QM, it’s generally offset by other bad players on the enemy team.
Do you honestly believe that if you put most masters at bronze, they’d struggle? The reason why Fan still wins even though he makes some mistakes (which you perceive as “intense”), is because he can afford to because he’s just that much better than everyone else by a clear mile with the exception of the KT. It’s basically cheating, and if you think better players have to torture other bronze players just to “see what it’s like”, you’re delusional and cruel.
What’s funny here is Karabars is saying he doesn’t mind people who are low ranked who try. And somehow you twist that to be someone who doesn’t try is okay. In your mind, you actually thought you were doing well in the games played together, when it was the opposite. In your mind, you actually think Fan is doing well in the game. Then when confronted with the criticism, you deny or twist the truth.
I gave a bunch of real detailed criticisms of the game, and instead of actually engaging with the actual content, you hand wave it away as backseat driving, and essentially respond with, I know you are, but what am I.
And FYI, I was saying you can win with Nazeebo by being bad, not that you can’t win with it, so you’re only proving my point.
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Yeah I admire Fan for reasons different than yours
You called me disgusting so that’s even more proof of how different you and I are as players and as human beings
Fan plays like a player who values fun above competitiveness and to me; that is worthy of admiration
Not all the time
Just sometimes
I have yet to see even Fan himself have a 100% winrate at Bronze League while climbing out of it
I am not one to defend myself even when you call me disgusting
But many others here including Minky will probably disagree with about you about my personality
To confront with your immaturity; sometimes I have to stoop to your level
And to quote Karabars; “there is no shame in that”
Fan isn’t playing horribly as Nazeebo in that video by any stretch of imagination
I would gladly welcome any Nazeebo player like that on my team in Storm League
Now thanks to Volun being nice enough to reply; I can now continue to reply to the rest of you who posted:
Yeah even Fan himself can lose games despite being the best and there is absolutely no shame in that
I prefer other books myself and I don’t eat up every advice Fan gives as fact so make of that what you will
Volun translated: At least you know your place Minky(you are bad and you know it) and this gives my ego a huge boost compared to Xylord who continues to rebel against my absolute authority despite being a mere Bronze Leaguer
I happen to like playing Gall, thank you very much
My point isn’t that Bronze League is the hardest level to play at
My point is that people will find it more frustrating to play in general if they were actually there
ESPECIALLY if they were trying to climb out of Bronze 5 itself(which was made more difficult after a change a while ago because this change causes winning at Bronze 5 to give you very low points)
My point was also originally that Bronze is harder than a lot of players may initially expect
I sent you a friend invite on Bnet recently
And you may add me on Discord at Dog#3617 if you really are open to playing more together with me
Listen
If you feel that I have been abusive to you then you are free to report me for it
That is the attitude that I take with everyone
People’s opinions of ourselves are simply none of our business in most cases
The report system is a democratic system and democracy itself is a very subjective form of controlling things
And I agree with you
Which is why I continue to like Volun and Karabars’ posts when they say things I agree with despite one of them calling me disgusting
My point is simply that “Abusive Chat” by itself is subjective to interpretetation because of the very definition of “abuse” is something that people find extremely offensive or insulting
If someone’s words irritate you to the point where you are unable to enjoy your game in HOTS then I personally would not hold it against you for reporting them for Abusive Chat
People have different levels of tolerance and patience
Every person is unique
We are all special in our own way
Volun and Karabars included
The thing is I don’t. You haven’t been abusive to me which is exactly why if I would report you for it, I would be in the wrong. That’s the point I am trying to make.
Irritating isn’t a reportable offense. My tank asking people to group might be irritating, but that doesn’t mean I can report them for abusive chat because it irritates me.
Yes, and different games have different levels of expectation. Online games require maturity, and I don’t see the maturity in being offended so easily by a tank asking to group to the point where you report them.
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That is kind of you to say but also not the point that I was trying to make my kind friend
You most certainly CAN report them for Abusive Chat but it doesn’t mean that you should unless you feel that they were using the chat to ruin your ability to have fun
My point is that people are given the power to do so and that we have no say in the matter when someone does something that the developers of this game allow people to do and get away with
People themselves are the judges of what is deemed “reportable” when it comes to Abusive Chat because abuse itself is subjective
What does “grinding out games” really mean in this context?
So we got it right. This was a post about “Bronze life hard, they’re actually good/skillful players”.
Who can say the obvious, that they’re by definition aren’t skilled without those who dare to say it getting called elitists?
Could I say they’re bad if I would be Bronze? I wouldn’t be elitist, right?
Isn’t that rankist?
Isn’t that just an inferiority complex? Shouldn’t the good players be the ones who can say who isn’t skilled? Since you know, they know better.
I also doubt you actually know much about Master rank, so why does it matter how much ppl know about the “hardships” of Bronze? Especially since we can see proof of it. There are streams, videos of ever rank.
This was a post about “Bronze life can be hard and some of them can actually be skillful” posted for lighthearted and comedic reasons that people over here can discuss about
Fan can
Because he actually constantly plays at Bronze level unlike you
Don’t get me wrong
Even I think that a lot of Bronze players are bad
But I also think that some of them are actually really good too
It probably is
“Rankist”
I like this new term
Coined by the Legendary Rankist Medivh of the HOTS Forums: Karabars
You’re good bro
But neither you nor Volun are Fan who constantly plays in Bronze enough to know what it actually is like
I have played with and against Masters in plenty of games
That’s how I know that the games aren’t really all that different sometimes
I was actually hoping that you would be one of the friends that I got to enjoy higher level games with and show that we can actually have good teamwork together
Instead you chose to judge me, deem me bad and not play with me anymore simply because I joked around as Medivh in an ARAM game we played together with JumpyLion
And even now you talk down to me and tell me that there is no shame in being bad at the game after you have accused me of trying to cope with the fact that I am a bad player
Why would I need to cope at being bad at a video game I play for fun?
Do you honestly think I am that pathetic of a human being?
There are streams sure but you can’t exactly feel the frustration of Bronze games without actually being there to experience it constantly yourself
And you judged me based on very few games we played together so it’s not exactly the most inaccurate assumption to assume that you would assume the whole entirerity of Bronze is bad just from a few games alone
In comparison to me who was playing Ranked almost every single day
So it’s not unreasonable to think that I know Bronze better than you do
I wish Fan was here on the forums so we could get his true opinion of the Bronze League
Fan trashtalk everyone who’s worse than him. He looks down even Masters.
I personally don’t like stomping ppl who can’t handle the lvl I represent.
And this can sound elitist or bragging I guess, but I’m not the one who wants to talk about this subject. You bait me into talking about why don’t I “dare” to play with Bronze players. But I actually did. I have an acc to play with my Bronze fiancé, and I played on NA with my maij, which started from fresh and I played a few placements with Bronze players (I also had bad pimg on NA).
Both cases, I carry easily.
I did not. You mentioned our games and shared experience, it was your choice of topic. I even said I don’t want to go into details and drop it:
And me not wanting to play with you is not an ethical or moral dilemma, don’t make it sound like that.
I won’t be elitist or shamer just because you’re not the kind of player I wanted to play with. Geez…
I’ve seen the opposite honestly
Fan says nice things about Bronzes
I ain’t your fiancee man
I haven’t seen you carry easily
I don’t know what it’s like for a Karabars to play with me on Bronze just because he was simping for me
All I know is an easily frustrated Karabars who calls me bad on the forums and stopped playing with me because of those feelings that he never mentioned to me in private
You are right that it was my choice of topic but it was not my decision to summon you here to this post and accuse me of using copium and look down on me
I chose that topic specifically because you and I have had good games together and the fact that you choose to remember only the bad moments are not my fault
Who says it was an ethical or moral dilemma?
You don’t want to play with me and that’s fine
What I do have a problem with is you accusing me of copium together with Volun when you actually haven’t really seen me try in our games or work together with you
You come at me with your little Medivh portal, throw your Q at me and expect to get away without losing health?
Ridiculous
This isn’t a fight. But I guess I use the already estambelished metaphor and just fly away.
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The thing is you can define “ruining my fun” in a large variety of ways. That’s the issue. I could essentially report anyone who communicates in chat because in my shallow mind I could see anything anyone says as abusive. That’s not right. I shouldn’t be able to do that and get away with it. You’re right, I can, because there’s the ability to, but how is that fair to the players who get actions taken against their account because of it?
I know it takes a fair amount of it for anything to happen to you, but there are also a lot of people who do these things and Fan is apparently one of em, so is it really out of the scope of reality that players get unjustly banned, or suspended? I don’t think its unreasonable to think so. And lets be honest here, a lot of players who are in higher leagues tend to not have to deal with this issue because down in the lower ranks people are immature or pissed off that they are where they are and take it out on anyone who disagrees with them even if they said nothing inherently abusive. There are tons of immature players in lower ranks and how can you expect immature people to make mature decisions like not reporting falsely? You can’t.
That’s a major issue of the report system as a whole. People say “well the devs found it abusive”, but was the player provided proper reasoning? I for sure wasn’t given proper reasoning when I got banned, but I’ve beated that horse for so long its already decomposed.
Sure, but it shouldn’t be this way. Its not going to change, and most of us just have to deal with it… but that doesn’t mean it should be justified.
This “by the people” mentality works in courtrooms where several different people have to agree, but if the power is given to one single person, how can you trust they are making honest decisions? How can you be sure that what they define as “abusive” or “toxic” is reasonable? You can’t.
Not all people respond that way. There have been more than a few times where some low ranked person will say I’ve played with high ranked, they’re not that good, or they complimented me, so actually, I’m good, and it’s the players that I’m teamed with that are holding me back.
Rather than reflect on the actual differences of how the games are being played out, they further the narrative of victimhood. They don’t realize the better players are actually empowering them for success, and actually eliminating situations for them to even allow them to make mistakes. Take that away, and suddenly, they’ll struggle again.
I never once said Minky was bad. I’ve never played with her, nor has she ever offered a replay. I just know there is a HUGE gulf in difference between someone who is plat and someone who is bronze. I think it’s also refreshing to know your limitations rather than delude yourself to protect your ego.
When I say it’s disgusting, I’m not calling you disgusting. I’m calling Fan out for reporting someone who is not only not toxic, but creating a narrative that the Stitches was for simply asking the team to group, while running cover for someone who was actually responsible for a lot of the failures on the team, which teaches horrible analysis to his very sizable audience, many of which like yourself are impressionable and ignorant, all the while he is the one that is partially causing the toxicity by playing in a league he shouldn’t be in. If he didn’t report the Stitches, and taught his audience why the BW was in the fault, and why his deaths were actually a result of him pathing near bushes when he saw the minimap was empty, and his fault, I’d be much more forgiving.
Instead, he blames the enemy team, which makes his audience who are stuck in the ranks feel better about themselves, feeding into the delusion that makes you want to make this kind of thread in the first place.
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I get it, its a fest of throwers, feeders and uncoordinated, but here’s the catch, they are sitting ducks waiting to be punished one by one and a good player will see it without repeating the mistakes and issues that apply in this rank.
Feeders and throwers will drive you insane and it did for some of my games, but they represent a minority that I wish people would stop say otherwise, people come to play SL to win majority of case, and troll least whether you agree with this part or not your experience, sorry, but I had 3 troll games and deranked to Silver 4 because of nonsense but surprisingly they tend to be rare.
But those hardships are just the perfect example of how Bronze is Bronze, and how Platinum is Plantinum, and how Grandmasters are closeted Diamonds Grandmasters.
I abused Macro, played by exploiting camp timing and resulted in me winning 90% of my games before competent players started to balance out to change my strategy again.
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Man, what’s the big deal? If the dude doesn’t want to play with you, you don’t need to guilt trip him into playing with you again.
Have some dignity, find, and play with people who actually enjoy playing with you. There’s no need to cling to people who prefer NOT to play with you lol.
If he thinks you’re bad but you think you’re good, why do you need his approval? Just move on.