How intense the Bronze League can actually be

A lot of people look down on Bronze but this is how many games in Bronze are actually like

Fan himself is being given a hard time here

You will never look at Bronze the same way again after watching this video

Let me know what you guys think

That KT definitely doesn’t seem like bronze because of how fast and consistently he was chaining his combos and using abilities to check bushes. But if you watch that video and don’t see the huge amount of mistakes being made on both sides and why some of these people are in bronze, that’s more you trying to cope.

All the more bizarre you’re using this as an example because Fan won. Fan was able to do a lot of damage and actually contribute to team fights, even though a lot of his gargantuans were pretty bad, and he pathed into places that was a lot more risky than he needed to. If you see the enemy team, their damage is consistently low except for the KT.

Some random observations. Most of this criticism is directed at BW who was terrible. Her damage was low because she rarely got Qs, which also affects healing.

  1. BW ported to Fan at 90% health, then proceeded to not use pixie dust after so Fan was destroyed. That gank was completely savable.
  2. The BW got the dragon, which meant the Typhus died, which is what allowed the other team to rotate and gang on Fan more easily. It’s not rocket science.
  3. Fan is literally just sitting in a full duration Hyperion.
  4. BW again, porting to people at full health who don’t need it, leaving it on CD when it is needed. The Stitches was right to complain. The fact that Fan reported him for abusive chat is crazy, and an example of false reporting.
  5. Dehaka dies up top, BW proceeds to waste her aoe healing, and not assist, even though she’s not really in danger except being auto’d by a KelThuzad.
  6. BW again tries to get dragon knight even though she shouldn’t, even while enemies are there.
  7. Diablo and Raynor aggressively engage into the blue team even though they have 2 down. Definitely bronze moves.
  8. When Fan goes up front, BW tries to save Stitches, but does so cautiously (while at full health), she positions herself to be too far to help Fan. Even worse, when she finally does get in range, she wastes her blink heal on Stitches rather than Fan who needed the heal.
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Fan had a “hard time” = he played in chill mode doing plays which would be outright mistakes at higher ranks and sometimes it meant he got killed. Which surprised him. HIM, who does these Bronze challenges often, meaning if anyone, he knows the difference in skill lvl between the different brackets. And why was it, that he was surprised? Because the KT was better than what he got used to in Bronze.
He even questions if the KT cheats or not, but not because “so good”, but you can see that they sometimes act like they see the fog of war, and no, it couldn’t be due to using the minimap.
So this game is a terrible example. Fan doesn’t even trying, but I understand if someone who plays mostly Bronze don’t see this.

Longstory short, Bronze is Bronze, no amount of sugarcoating changes that. It’s the lowest achieveable rank, and that means that the average(!) is better than it. It’s below average. No issue with that, no shame in that, but also no need for copium…


I agree Karabars, but it also shows that you may meet a smurf and just have a hard time.
At least this time there were two, Player and reyalP.

Sometimes it’s not even smurf. The number of advanced Genji and KTZ players showing a low bronze rank and pubstomping in QM is notable. I assume they do the same in ranked. Failing with other heroes, like myself.

On top of QM showing that even supposedly fair matches can go very south based on draft. I had not a snowball but an avalanche today.

In any event, it’s a moot point. I’m trying to play foosball at my new work and I’m often laughing about my late reactions. At least I can now. But it’s the same with Heroes, being able to reliably act in 0.2s vs 0.4s can make a big difference on the long run. For a slowbie, it’s intense because it’s testing their limits.


Sounds like someone has never actually been in Bronze

When was the last time you ever played a Bronze game?

I have personally played games at higher levels and won

I have played with even you as a matter of fact and some of those games have actually gone well

It’s not exactly a coping mechanism to give people an idea of what Bronze can actually be like

Chat with any form of negativity can be interpreted as abusive depending on who you’re asking

The fact that you think it’s crazy just goes to show what kind of player you are

I am fully aware that Fan isn’t playing his best

My exact words are that Fan was being given a hard time which did happen in that game

Someone who plays at mostly higher levels with better teammates will find it easy to look down upon Bronze players just because they are the lowest achievable rank

But you Karabars are actually in a position to know I am not completely clueless because we have personally played games together

So get off your high-horse and stop judging players by their colors

“Not a bad player but kind of toxic” I mean I didn’t see anything of what Stitches said as being toxic. That’s messed up.

And what kind of player would that be? Nothing Stitches said was toxic. Fan was probably just upset from before that game since in the beginning he even said “Bronze seems more toxic this time around” and then reported Stitches for asking the team to group. BW has a global, but some people forget she also has passive heals and a small cleanse which help the whole team when they’re grouped, so I understand Stitches complaint and it didn’t seem bad in any way to me.

They won, so in the end it doesn’t matter where BW was, but reporting someone because you don’t like that they said something is way different than reporting someone for actually being abusive.

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It wasn’t thanks to the Bronze players tbh, and let’s leave it at that.

Look, I see that Fan is playing badly there. He knows it, he’s doing it on purpose. It gives the same vibe when I play vsAI on my main or when I play on my smurf which I use to chill with fiancé.

That’s why Fan was really far from actually having a hard time, he didn’t, it was easy, he barely even tried, and that’s what I mean by “copium”. That you mistaken it and try to rationalise it in a way that supports Bronzies.

No shame in being bronze, but it’s the lowest for a reason. Its players are bad at the game and the “why” doesn’t matter. But this is a videogame for fun, so who cares if someone isn’t a “pro” at it.

I’m not judging people, I’m judging plays.

Abusive Chat is subjective and open to interpretation

It differs from person to person what they think is abusive

Someone who is fine with upsetting others as long as they win in the end

Let’s not leave it at that because I remember us both doing well and the fact that you choose not to remember is simply the attitude of a higher ranked player looking down on the ones below

I even remember inviting you for games multiple times only for you to decline because you didn’t want to play with someone at a much lower MMR than yourself outside of ARAM or Unranked Draft

That’s open to interpretation

Dying multiple times due to a lack of trying doesn’t exactly mean that he was having an easy time

It’s not like Fan was dying on purpose no matter which way you look at it

You are judging me when you accuse me of “copium” for pointing out what Bronze players have to go through in a lot of their games

If Fan keeps bumping into powerful enemies like these at Bronze level then try and imagine what it’s like for the rest of us on a regular basis

This was meant to be a lighthearted post before you and Volun started this “copium” nonsense


The one person who actually understands what this originally lighthearted topic was about

All righty then

I did not enjoy our shared matches. Mostly because you did not do well.

You can scapegoat around, but I do not look down on you or any low ranked.
But usually I do not enjoy playing with ppl who do not give their best.

Yes, still the same rules. I care for my QM and SL stats, I do not care about my UD or Aram ones. The latter two are my non serious modes.
I also have/had really high mmrs in those modes, thus if I played with low mmr players, the MM expected me to hardcarry and that is not fun.

He could’ve try, and then he would’ve died. His deaths also didn’t really matter, because he can just play better and “fix” his prior mistakes. He can make plays to regain value to balance out the “devalue” he gave to his team by dying due to poor plays.

I’m judging your post.

“The look how hard it is for Fan in Bronze” sounds like “bronze is hard”, which isn’t true, and I didn’t even see him having a hard time.
If your point was not that “bronze players are actually good”, try to say “look how hard time Fan’s allies had”. Or look how hard it is for bronze players. But you said Fan was struggling, when he did not.
And when we say that Fan is actually fine, if your point was “poor bronze players”, you would respond like “and that’s why it’s hard for us” but instead you doubled down on the “but Fan had it rough” and went defensive…

Imo, the lightheartedness failed in the op, I wouldn’t blame the responds it generates.

Anyway, I mean no harm to you. I don’t look down on you. I’m not on a high horse, I’m not judging ppl.
Sorry if I hurt you, that was not my intention. (That’s why I didn’t want to talk about our times as allies despite you mentioning it.)

You: I don’t look down on you

Also you: I don’t want to play with you because I think you’re bad


You could have just said it to me back when we were friends on Bnet man

Friends should talk

Friends should let each other know how they can make each other’s games more enjoyable

I would have actually listened to you

But instead you just went silent because you didn’t like playing with me and decide to show your true opinions of me out here in these forums years later

The following is me doing an impression of you:

“Oh well you’re Bronze which is the lowest achieveable rank in the whole game so I understand why someone at your level lacks the intelligence to tell that Fan isn’t going Super Saiyan in this game and only fights in his base form, once again there is no shame man, but Bronze is Bronze and there is no need for copium…”

I look back on our matches fondly because I saw the bright-side in those few matches where we struggled and I remember you writing on one of my other posts that you were still open to playing with me and here you are telling me that you didn’t enjoy those few games

Why would you tell me that you were open to playing more with me if you disliked playing with me?

That’s like asking to get punished

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This is why your Naz defense was so embarrassing. You don’t even know what you don’t know and then try to dress it up as something more than it is. This was Fan playing badly and STILL winning.

The fact that you came to the conclusion that you did after watching this video is more an indictment of the lack of insight you have than the difficulty of playing in bronze. Which is certainly not a crime, but I also don’t have to pretend your delusions are actually triumphs of will and challenge.

You opened up a good discussion for those who think they are “stuck” in Bronze or at any rank. Tone and nuance in text can be obscured or lost (Unless you possess the linguistic flare and precision of a Xenterex!) and this can lead to threads being unintentionally derailed.

If your intention with this thread was to point out that many players in Bronze can effectively do basic things like, soaking, camp timing and other broader macro decisions, then that’s a good point. From my experience (Hitting my personal skill ceiling.), limitations in my micro ability means I can only climb so far, it’s hard to accept, but it’s key if you don’t want to become a grumpy player who blames everyone for your failure.

I also agree with you that rank shaming should never be a thing. Hots is just a game, and some people are more gifted mentally and/or physically, so their climb or learning curve is easier than the average or below average player.

I wish I had something more to add to the discussion beyond that, but I don’t enjoy watching Fan, he’s a great player, but his personality is not to my taste.

Was that pun intentional? If so, I rather like it, and I’m calling Tychus “Typhus” from now on.

The problem is, that some people (me included) can still “do their best”, but their best still sucks in comparison to a more skilled player. I feel sad now.


Bronze is the lowest league for a reason and players come with different strengths and weaknesses.

You could have lets say a KTZ like the one mentioned in the video with the micro skills better than some players in gold but then make poor macro/draft decisions.

Ultimately though unless they are purposefully sabotaging or playing chill with friends if they are a better player than bronze level they will climb out with enough games played.


Even in the forums, you admitted you’re not trying yo do your best:

That is not the issue here, @Minky. My fiancé is Bronze, Hoku was Gold, AlarakoftheStorm is Bronze, my rlf friends are Plat at best. I like(d) playing with them all.
If you do your best, and sadly that’s “not enough”, that’s enough for me.
But @Xylord sit most game in the air as Medivh doing nothing and when I said he did poorly he denied it.

I said it to you, @Xylord. You didn’t listen.

Intelligent ppl can be bad. You also claim to choose to be bad.
You’re not lacking intelligence, you’re lackong high skill experience. No shame in that.

I still am. I did not enjoy those matches. But I’m not a man who refuses to be proven wrong. I can also handle some bad matches for friends.

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I don’t understand the point here, are you implying that bronze is difficult in a certain way?

It does not, it exists with a title that implies otherwise that people are there for a reason and there’s no shame in this, I certainly facepalmed from the times of Silver because I really didn’t like the bad plays, from someone trying to use Dragon Strike on a fort to KTZ having 8 stacks by level 20.

The difficulty of bronze is a myth and you should casually win with time if you are better than everyone, bronze are some of the most vulnerable to dives because they don’t understand fundamentals of position that literally my condition to a game was Valla pushing too hard that they staggered their team in a QM game.

Small stuff like this make the difference and they are easy to capitalize alone or with some people.

Fan really wasn’t trying and he is aware why, there’s nothing competitive there it’s a mess fest, most of them don’t know what to do and he just toy around them for that reason.


Fan grinds out games as well doesn’t he.

I tend to play a lot of games in a row and you are not going to be playing at 90-100% of your ability all of the time.

I’m probably more auto pilotish and am around 70 - 80 percent majority of the time sometimes less if i’m tired/triggered sometimes more when you hit your peak of concentration for a bit.

My point is especially in bronze when like you said it’s a fiesta and he’s grinding a lot of games out while keeping chat entertained he probably isn’t playing at his best.

Haha, I think it was just auto correct, which is quite annoying because proper nouns didn’t trigger auto corrections nearly as much before. Also just tried to write smurf, and it auto capitalizes it as if I’m talking about the blue gnomes creatures lol, which I’m pretty sure it never did before. For all the advances in AI, I do not like this “progress”.

The difference is you’re not trying to pass off your skill level as more than it really is. That kind of self awareness is refreshing, compared to someone who is low skill, and then has the gall to say, well…actually, I’m actually pretty good because bronze is so hard, and all you people could never cut it if you were playing there.

You’re also plat, which is a FAAAAAAR cry from bronze (which again is perfectly fine), which is why this thread’s thesis and objective is patently ridiculous.

I’d wager the KTZ was probably a smurf, but even still, that’s one of 5 enemies. The other 4 were generally pretty bad. And clearly, facing against a smurf doesn’t stop you from having your own as seen in this game.

Fan really does like being theatrical, hamming it up when he dies, blaming the people’s micro when it’s generally just his bad positioning. It makes the lower skilled players feel good about themselves and reconfirms that macro, aka brainless soaking, is how people get ahead, which is just a terrible long term strategy. Here he mocks and reports the Stitches and praises the BW, when it was the BW that was terrible, teaching his audience how to be a bad healer.

And people like Xylord eat it up as gospel. It’s pretty disgusting honestly.


I do enjoy watching Fan and I think overall he is a positive influence in the hots community and possibly keeps the player base up a bit.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle where he is a very good player but not perfect like nobody is, especially in the moment.

He makes plenty of mistakes and isn’t right about everything but he is clearly a gm level player who must have some of the highest amount of SL experience going from all ranks.


Plus he may have a code to not try his best. Like in this game reyalP also didn’t try hard except for hunting him.

After a big fail streak it’s good to finally do a stomp myself and gain confidence, I can still do it. (Li-Ming respawn voice: ) Or not.
But it’s a regular discussion that skilled players shouldn’t smurf. So he tries not to destroy the fun for the others.

Viewers mostly enjoy these matches, so they want him to climb slow. Teaching by pointing mistakes out, performing some, all the while it’s relatable.

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There was a specific video where he in a high league explained a lot of basic fundamentals and demonstrated immediately each one, he knows how to play, he can try hard to the fullest each game at his own will, he simply does not because he can bring entertainment in other ways, and it works for his own profits.