How do you get to Bronze 5?

General Discussion
82

Bro. You’re the one who were trying to ‘exclude’ the cases. Reason being unknown does not matter as I said previously. That it happened is what’s important.

All skipping because it’s going in circles,

And I told you how ‘abonormalities’ in program happen. Those occurrence is so rare to begin with, but you’re saying it happenes often enough, and people noticed them on top of that.

A what? I perfectly know what an abnormality is, you just don’t know how programming works, hence try to push low cases as some abnormality and try to exclude them.

Again. Super duper uber rare mount. Very low chance of dropping. Think how that relates to what we’re talking about.

You mean patch note or whatever written by humans? Devs must be god to you. It doesn’t undermine anything because generally what the devs said is correct. Only when some players try to circumvent whatever system those exceptions can happen, if we assume others’ anecdotes are correct anyway.

Devs aren’t god to me. I understand that they are humans and I don’t look down on them nor take their words lightly just because they didn’t explain itty bitty details about everything.

This still makes me cringe. Still keeping the urge to facepalm.

83

…is there a summary of this debate by any chance?

84

MMR in fact is equal to rank. I just dodged 3 matches won 4 aram games, to which I would have had higher MMR than the rest of my team according to this thread, but instead I was not the person who banned.

If I was the highest MMR I would have banned, so my Rank decreased along with my visual rank. Lol

85

Huh? ARAM doesn’t have a ban. Not to mention, ARAM if it does have an MMR would be separate to other mode’s MMR.

86

Aram to clear the leaver’s queue smart one. Lol you’re trying so hard and you just look stupid

87

LoL, what does ARAM have to do with anything then? It’s just needlessly confusing. Trying so hard to clarify your post? Oh noes, the horrors!

88

When you dodge a match you get leaver’s status and you can clear it by winning a match of QM or ARAM. Aram is faster so I chose that.

I queued for rank, quit during draft. Lost 500 points, got leaver’s status and dropped a rank because i had under 499 rank points in that tier. Played an Aram, won, leaver’s queue is gone. Queued for ranked again, left. Lost another 500 points. Won another aram to clear that leaver’s status. Queued for ranked a third time, quit and lost another 500 and dropped again, got leaver’s status again, won two more aram’s to remove the status, queued for ranked a third time, this time two tiers lower in rank points (silver 3), and everyone I was matched with was silver 3 when they should have been silver 1 like my original Rank and MMR showed, yet, they weren’t and I didn’t ban during that match.

According to everyone else’s hypothesis I should have banned because rank points and MMR are not equal, and MMR doesn’t decrease if you leave a match, when mine did. My rank points and MMR both went down, otherwise I would have been the highest MMR player and would have banned during that match.

Lol just stop you’re embarrassing yourself trying to attack me. Oh but I’m toxic?

:mirror:

89

Notice how your explanation is very different from the post I originally quoted. Also notice, I have not chimed in on this discussion either way (I honestly don’t know how it works) until I was confused about that last post.

LoL, if you didn’t want to go down this tangent, you could have easily left out the ARAM part or clarified what your methodology and rationale in more detail, and there would be nothing to prattle on about. Instead, you’re now doubling down to play martyr over a question.

Yikes.

90

It doesn’t take much intelligence to link Aram to getting rid of leaver’s status. So idk why you had to chime in now just to point that out even though it’s pretty much common knowledge.

I’m not doubling down on anything, I’m literally just explaining that I tested it and what I found matches what I said. I mean if you have a hypothesis and it ends up being correct through experimentation, isn’t that how the scientific method works?

God damn this forum is so far gone. I’m done dealing with the likes of you as well. I’m just gonna put you on ignore as well and leave it as that. Hypocrite. “You’re so toxic!” Yeah learn what a mirror is and how to use it.

91

if you’re accounting for 1 variable, and have a control for ensuring that only that 1 variable is different in the test. The process you described does not suit the implied hypothesis, nor does the conclusion actually suit the method, so it’s just a cycle of confirmation bias.

  1. patch notes indicate that mmr = ranked
  • patch notes are not perfect and have posted erroneous things before; that doesn’t mean that mmr ≠= ranked, but the conclusion that having something be in patch notes must mean it is correct is incomplete reasoning, esp when evident contradiction or exceptions are available.
  • I posted an example of patch/dev notes implying that mmr/ranked can diverge, but the causes for that have diminished. It doesn’t indicate how the deviation can happen, but it likely involves leaving and decay penalties because those happen without a game completing for the usual rank undates. Previous cases are speculating, not so much cuz they can’t ‘prove it’, but because it’s not worth the time/effort to explore such a minor thing.
  1. The examples are used are just that: examples. One topic was from ptr and the immediate reaction to the explanation ‘seemed’ logical to the person at the time. Other people have likely concluded the same and don’t make topics on reddit or the forums for that. If other instances are around, they’d likely be tied to one-off accounts on how the game/mmr is so broken and rigged, at which point, people usually reply to other particulars instead.

I also posted that I’ve seen it happen (cuz I have,) but I did not make a special note of it, nor am I going to fish ‘proof’ out of it largely because the effort it’d take to post it simply does not matter: it still wouldn’t convince you, and more importantly, it’s not an ‘issue’ worth dwelling on. MMR/rank quirks abound at the high and low ends of the matching, so one other visual gimmick isn’t stealing the spotlight of visible complaints.
3. I chalked up my experience to decay at the upper ends of mmr, your ‘test’ was done at a lower band were decay does not happen. It might not strictly be decay, it may be caused by more than just one factor, which can make it harder to isolate and recreate the issue without dev/hacktools. It might be particular to placements or seasonal transitions, and maybe it only happens if people post enough M. Bison memes about tuesdays. The examples were posting observations from others having it, not themselves, so it could be a visual bug, and not an actually math/rank one.
4. Complaints on the forum are things players see as being a “problem”. The players that usually complain here are probably not going to encounter the mmr/rank disparity, aren’t going to notice, or probably aren’t going to care. For those that know/expect highest mmr to be the ‘team leader’ at ban phase, players typically don’t want to ban because it indicates they aren’t the highest ranked player in their game, which tends to make for ‘better’ matches compared to when they are the highest.

The experience you posted does not ensure that you’d be the player banning, so the conclusion that you should be the highest mmr played (and thus ban) does not have a means to verify the claim you’re trying to assert. Players in that match could also have leaver penalties levied at them too; there’s a lot not isolated and verified in the case.

It is possible that the ‘issue’ could have been fixed, but I also doubt that would be the case. It’d be low priority, probably not get reported much (cuz again, why would people care about it?) and the instances of when it happens are likely within the acceptable margin of error. There are a lot of other issues people do encounter with the game that have not, and likely will continue to not, see much activity on the forum, esp at this point in the game.

Based on the ranks stated in accounts where this happens, either decay or initial placement caps could be involved, and not just leaving games. Players that see it, if/when it happens (if at all) probably already know that the highest mmr player bans and don’t report it here. Typical matching/mmr complaints are in the lower and middling ranges of ranked, so it isn’t surprising if people outside ranks where mmr decays don’t see something that might be caused by ranked decay.

If I were putting as much time into this as these back-and-forths were doing, I’d probably be more upfront about incorporating multiple variables instead of running off on run and then acting like it trumps everything else :confused:

92

Okay so when the same instance happens to two others, it hints at rank must be unequal to MMR, but when my instance, where the same thing happened (the supposed highest MMR, which it should have been since I was playing against silver 3’s and I doubt they all coincidentally had the same MMR as me assuming my MMR was actually different), but the circumstances change when I’m the one who attempted it. One moment, anecdotal evidence was strongly supported… another minute… there are reasons its wrong. Good god

I’m done. Can’t win here. Ignored as well.

93

Uhh…you don’t know how data collecting works, do you?

Your assumption is wrong in the first place. You’re still assuming you will get 4x G5 as your team when you are G5 who left during draft. Your MMR would not be higher than G4 in your team even if you left a gazilion times. G4 would be banning over you everytime. Or maybe you thought you would be teamed up with Silvers or something (nope. not what was said).

You should’ve cheched who/which rank was banning.

Your MMR you mean. Wrong conclusion regardless.

Do you think this was gonna be walk in the park? Just a quick in and out data collecting? There is a reason I mentioned ‘pre-plan’, though that was more about ‘which account I should use’.

edit: right…again, as I said. stop lashing out to other people, will you?

94

I was silver 1, dropped to silver 3. Still wasn’t the one banning. You simply can’t read. Is a natural silver 3 higher than a silver 1?

No. So just shut up already. God damn. You’re so insistent on being correct and continue pestering me on the subject with stupid bogus information.

Get a life seriously. Ok that was my last reply to any of you three idiots. Call me toxic idgaf. Im the one who knows myself well enough to realize I’m toxic, I embrace it. You 3 however can’t. Oh well. Not everyone can have a good sense of self.

Bye. hope you enjoy being stiffened by replying to me.

95

Read what I said again.

First off, you left this info out. Second, you still don’t seem to realize error in your logical step.

Who/which rank was banning? Was it other Silver3 player or what? If it were another Silver3 player, your assumption is correct. If it were some Silver1 player, you didn’t prove anything.

When you have so many holes in your argument, of course I’m gonna step in. I said so before even, what bothers me. It was never about you in a personal level. You’re leaving crucial infos out.

I would do the experiment myself if it weren’t for some drawbacks, lol. I likely still will do, just gonna take some time.

96

This whole thread in a nutshell.

2 Likes
97

You’re not reading things through, draw incorrect assumptions from the incomplete information, and think ‘everyone’ is “Toxic” by disagreeing with your errant claims. What you assert for trying to recreate what others posted (years ago) is not the same cause as what is going on.

you’ve been dismissive of the accounts because you concluded that all leaving creates disparity in mmr and rank. That would mean it is fundamentally broken and people would see this all the time. By drawing an extreme conclusion – by not reading the particulars – you’ve set yourself up for a failed test, and then continue to blame other people for the issue. The concern expressed is simply an observation: the ‘highest mmr’ isn’t always the one who bans, and one of the variables that gets mmr to shift without completing a game (Where mmr updates) is by leaving. It has not been the only factor, and it is not recreated just because someone left a lobby and then later played games to clear leaver queue.

Your capacity for not reading particulars through, drawing conclusions from incomplete information, and then faulting people for time-and-again not reading things through is not the ‘toxicity’ of others: that is on your end, and continues to be on your end. Declaring you’re going to ‘ignore’ others isn’t much of a different status queue outside of not having bloated back-and-forths to persist in the same issue :confused:

To boot, those were tangental concerns for just dropping ranks for trying to get to bronze, which other posters chimed in on their experience on the impact penalties have on mmr. Those are two different processes, and one does not indicate it creates the other.

98

Biochemikas said that leaving a match does not affect internal MMR so you couldn’t drop to bronze by just leaving games, which was a suggested solution to the OP and his question on how to get to bronze. I said it doesn’t because MMR and Rank are the same.

My point got challenged by a few people, who literally had 0 proof to their claim, but still challenged it. I did exactly what the person suggested (left queue’s until my rank decreased a few tiers). If MMR and Rank were not linked, I should have been playing with Silver 1 players. However I wasn’t. I was playing with Silver 3 players. If my MMR wasn’t affected why am I playing with Silver 3 players instead of Silver 1? The patch notes say Rank is ignored when it comes to the matchmaker so according to that it should match players against each other around the same MMR. My MMR was at around Silver 1, but when I played that match, it was with Silver 3’s. That’s why I’m saying the MMR goes down along with your rank… which is how its supposed to be since your Rank is mapped to your MMR which is directly stated in the patch notes.

If what you guys were saying is true… I should have been matched with Silver 1 players even though my rank showed Silver 3 because MMR shouldn’t have gone down even though my rank did according you you all… yet I was matched with Silver 3 players. If you think that confirmation bias… then idk what else to tell you. I mean… when scientists have a hypothesis, test it, and the result confims what they are saying… it must also be confirmation bias.

There was a whole mumbo jumbo about why it doesn’t or why it does that went on in different tangents. I tested it the best way I could, saw that it didn’t align with what Biochemikas said… then I get called a troll, toxic, unable to read, and so on. Then someone else asked a stupid question about why I mentioned ARAM, because it was such a big deal for them that I mentioned it even though everyone under the sun knows you can use ARAM to clear leavers status, and has the audacity to call me toxic while he can’t even understand that what he did is toxic as well… and then further states I am trying to victimize myself. And even now I see in other threads I’m being called a bad player, toxic, and other forms of libel after I said I’d ignored a certain group of people and then claim I can’t see what I do wrong. I know I’m toxic, because I just don’t care anymore. But that doesn’t stop the fact that all the people who had something to say to me are just as toxic… you can shrug it off as me not being able to see my internal self… well the same can be said for all of you.

So I’m closing myself off from this conversation because I got the information I needed and I have no further need to reply.

1 Like
99

Honestly chill. I think the forums have become more grumpy since the “news” from Blizzard.

Please don’t stress yourself in such a silly thread as this.

You are partly correct, you don’t lose MMR but you lose the visible rank. Remember though, as players can group 2 ranks apart it might be difficult to test your theory unless you can be certain all players on both teams are solo queue and not grouped.

2 Likes
101

That doesn’t explain why before I dropped rank, I was silver 1. Then after I dropped I was silver 3 and matched with other silver 3s. And my stance is that mmr and rank are linked so that’s why I was queued with silver 3 players and not silver 1.

And there were no groups on my side. It was 5 solos.

102

You keep ignoring what others are saying. It’s not unsual for S1 to be matched with S3. In fact, you would’ve had more weight/credibility if your observation showed you had S4-S5 players in your game (S1 being matched with S4-5 is more less likely. It would be in your favor, that internal MMR did drop with your visible rank).

And for the last time, WHO/WHICH RANK WAS BANNING?

Do you think this was a trick question? It’s not. It’s the one that can prove or disprove your claim once and for all. Basically everything revolves around that question.

You want to prove this? Answer the question. If you weren’t paying enough attention and forgot to check that, then say so also. I likely will test it myself this weekend anyway (just don’t know if I can make it in time. my initial plan: account that didn’t play SL. start at S4. get to G5. do the testing. but if I think I won’t have time, I’ll just test it at S1 or S2 even).

Pre-planning. I said so exactly due to this reason. In a rush, you may forget to check crucial info, variable, unless you recorded all of it.