Anas farming for sleep darts was a very bad design. It actually punished skillful play. People threw the darts into the team for guaranteed stacks. However, the skill is not landing it but was making an impact with thr cc. Having to farm a zero damage cc button with high cooldown, and given the fact that she becomes 10 times stronger with the reward, she cried for a rework.
2 Likes
What purpose has trying though, when Blizzard wonât revert the rework, even if it turns out bad?
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Have you seen the thread with the video on how absurdly broken her AA build is currently? How she can heal the damage of a stacked Butcher just by standing there? Yeah, three builds, two of which wonât be touched unless they tone down the AA buildâs healing a lot.
And I never found the Clemency build boring - maybe you did, but thatâs why we have lots of different heroes. I found the resource management style new and refreshing, and definitely do NOT want to be pigeonholed with my once-favorite healer into a build where PvP damage is a prerequisite for significant healing.
3 Likes
There are a lot of competent players that can read the patch notes themselves and already get a feel of the hero, whether the changes are impactful or not.
When Chromie was first reworked into her current version, many players were quick to point out her damage was lackluster and that blessing of the bronze was too strong. Guess what happened later, her damage as a whole was buffed and blessing of the bronze was nerfed.
When Qhira was added to the PTR, a lot of players pointed out that her damage was too high. Lo and behold, the subsequent patch nerfed her damage. Which even then, some still think her damage is a bit higher than average, I agree with them, weâll see what happens 
But the point is, using the excuse that âyOu HaVeNt PlAyEd ThE hErO aGaInSt ReAl PeOpLeâ is just an easy way to dismiss criticism on upcoming changes. If you wanna use that excuse, the same can apply to the devs since they arenât always playing the current version of hots, they arenât playing with the playerbase only internal testers when making these decisions, so then why are you defending them when they could easily be getting skewed results due to the limited pool of players.
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Theyâre obsessed with homogenization, take WoW for example (retail) every class is esentially the same.
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impactful, YES.
How they play? Kinda.
If theyâll enjoy playing them? NO.
I cannot stand playing Rexxar due to the micro of Misha, yet I love the lost vikings and all my Micro there.
So if they reworked ChoâGall into a single player character that requires a load of Micro switching between who you controlled, what would my feelings me? I have no idea.
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They may not revert it but trying everything means they need to keep working on her. If people just stop playing they wonât even have enough data to give her another change, which can even make they do a worse one. The best you can do is keep playing.
Yeah, doesnât impress me 
Testing things like that on unrelalistic scenarios always have really different results. Okay, she out heals a stacked butcher, but we always have to consider the game as a 5 v 5, with lots of different abilities and CC, and also fights are played very differently every game. Thereâs too much going on to just do a raw 1 v 1 in custom mode. Lots of heroes can do the same in those unrealistic 1 v 1 scenarios. If it proves to be that strong in normal games, then Blizzard will just nerf that in 3 weeks, like it always happens. Idk why people are so concerned that AA build might be powerful now. If it is, then it gets small nerfs and now she is balanced, enjoy
Yeah, for me it was pretty boring and easy. I could easily heal 150k-200k every game with her, it was very insane, but pretty boring.
Now, from what I read about the rework and watching some videos, Iâm really hyped to play her again. And no, thatâs not even because of AA build, because the build Iâm interested in playing has nothing to do with AA talents.
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No, I mostly went E build, not clemency. My concern with recent hero rework and releases is a pattern where you must AA to trigger an ability. As I said to you, there are many heroes in the roster than are primarily AA heroes. I play them, but mostly I donât find them as engaging as ability focused heroes.
Itâs not just mechanics, Whitemane had the identity of a Mage/healer. I love Tyrande, it fits her identity that her builds would revolve around her AA, she wields a bow. Whitemane has a staff, it doesnât suit her fantasy.
But that is just my preference and a lore RPG argument. Mostly I donât like the pattern in current hero releases and reworks that seem to be introducing an AA mechanic when it doesnât suit the hero.
I canât remember them ever reverting a rework, number tweaking here or there, thatâs about it.
2 Likes
this is something that should be focused on.
They have had a tendency to push heroes more and more into auto-attacking setups with reworks.
but donât stop them until they make AA aba viable please!
4 Likes
Thereâs still a pretty good E build there which is what Iâm going to be playing most of the time.
Just because you wonât deal 15k damage in a couple seconds with her anymore doesnât mean E build is bad. As karabars showed in another thread, you still do 5-6k in a couple seconds, which is pretty insane for a healer, especially one that heals through damage.
Like I said before, Blizzard is fine with that as long as itâs for the health of the game. They are fine with destroying the fantasy of a hero if that means making their moba better. In the end they want to have a good moba, even if heroes donât fit their fantasy.
Just a theory, but I feel like Blizzard is trying to say to the playerbase that auto attacking is important for every hero, and thereâs not better way to teach people that than making AA talents. Anyway, this is just a theory.
Show me your whitemane results. I wont ask anything else. You write on whitemane threads for days, relentlessly upvote posts of clueless people and make the attention shift shift from constructed arguments. I dont think anyone has the right to talk on a topic requiring familiarity.
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In my humble opinion, the biggest drawbacks that makes the game frustrating to play comes from 2 factors, one is fixable the other will NEVER be fixed because it canât and never will.
1st factor: There are too many spammy heroes that does high damage at the same time as their damage is very very VERY bound to chance in a short window of time (3 examples: Azmodan, Chromie and KaelâThas).
I like to call them Low skill high reward heroes (compared to other heroes).
Within same category: (Varian specifically TB, Qhira, Malâganis and Genji).
2nd factor: Random matchmaking that the system has no control over and probably never will, which can place you in a team with players that has both less MMR AND 1/4th of the brain capacity of the opponents and im talking about mental illness degree.
Iâve said it for years⌠As soon as you press READY the âcompetitiveâ aspect of the game will be divided by X amount of times.
I can get on board with that theory, if true it perhaps might improve the ability of some players to stutter step and AA more successfully. For me it will just make this game less interesting.
I get this is a MOBA, but itâs also an RPG, I play heroes because they are unique or Iâm attracted to the fantasy of welding magic, not auto attacks.
If this is the reason for all the AA reworks on heroes that lore wise and kit wise donât fit or shouldnât revolve around it, then maybe Blizz should introduce a tutorial about how to AA and stutter step with heroes and why itâs important.
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Where Iâll agree is that the numbers were a bit high, but that could be fixed by simply toning them down, both on the healing and mana regen sides of the equation. The âbrokenâ High Inquisitor talent was originally buffed from 60 to 75 per stack because it was considered underpowered, so why not revert it first if it turned out to be so OP?
I enjoyed the healing style of having to maximize spread of Zeal and reach 3 stacks before resetting. With the right team that stuck together it was fairly easy, and with the wrong team that kept running away from healing at just the wrong time (happens way too often in QM) it was a recipe for going OOM.
Trying to keep an open mind about her, but she needs adequate PvE healing, and I just hope she still has a viable out-of-combat build at the end of it all, even if itâs severely weakened.
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So only âwhitemainsâ with level 100+ and 60% winrate can talk in these threads now. Hmm, interesting.
And no, Iâm not going to open hots and taking lots of screenshots to prove anything, you should know better that her healing numbers were insane. Everyone knows that.
Also, that is an ad hominem. Youâre trying to change the focus to me instead of focusing on the subject. Donât do that.
Blizzard definitely should do tutorials on important stuff. Hots really need it. People need to learn.
Thinking about it, I donât think that will happen D: Right after HGC got cancelled, pretty sure NotParadox said Blizzard wanted him to do tutorial videos and a lot of stuff to teach the playerbase, but then it got cancelled D:
There were probably more things behind it than just numbers, otherwise they would just adjust them like you said.
I do have an open mind about her, that is why I am saying to everyone to wait and test the rework when it comes live. Test all the builds, test it in QM, test in low SL games, high SL games, custom games, tournaments, brawl, do weird builds, test everything for a couple weeks, play standard comps, play weird comps, everything.
After that, do a big thread giving all the feedback to Blizzard so they can adjust her in the 3 week patch after reworks.
What I am going to say though is this: It seems like all the whitemane mains are the ones who doesnât have an open mind, especially when there were lots of threads complaining not even 2h after they announced the rework.
Making infinite threads saying the rework sucks when Blizzard doesnât even have official data to work with is pretty bad.
2 Likes
I hate how new azmodan cant 1v1 the core like he could before, blizzard killed his lazer build and now hes so bad⌠im leaving
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Getting a hero that feels impactful is half of the experience to enjoying a hero. Donât take it from me, itâs something that the dev team has said numerous times. The Li Ming buffs were a result of players finding she adds little impact in the game.
My point is getting lost, I am simply trying to address why some are quick to dismiss any feedback or criticism towards the development team, when in actuality we are all human and humans make mistakes, which is why feedback is necessary. But any kind of attempt to voice opinions are often lost and dismantled by conversations such as this one.
Imagine getting familiar with a hero only for it to be changed in such a way, the way you play the hero is now different. Why was such a change needed? Why is the only solution to these problems a rework that also nerfs the hero? Is that kind of effort from a team with limited resources actually worth it? Or would it have been more efficient to add less changes and adjust numbers? Especially when it concerns a hero that wasnât terribly low tier, wasnât an old hero either, and the fact that there are other heroes that need more attention. I think these thoughts are at the back of our minds, even more so when we read a huge patch that, at itâs core, serves as a way to nerf the hero. Weâve seen it time and time again, Brightwing, Tyrande, Lunara, heck this kind of behavior is seen in other games as well, Mercy in Overwatch and some cards in Hearthstone.
Iâm trying to get back on topic, and I donât have anything to say about Rexxar or Vikings or Chogall, and I donât think itâs related. Comparing Valla and Raynor to Whitemane has more relation than those heroes.
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While i agree with the post i dont agree with this. All of my main healers got reworked. Morales,lucio, ana even malf who i played.I only play now ana and lucio of these 4.Now WM is getting rework.As you can see im supp main.
But i play anduin and alex instead.When your hero gets reworked you go QM or UR and play someting else. I know most good builds since i play SL a lot. So i just switch.
Lots of rly fun heroes in hots. Just need to dump reworked ones and find other fun ones. If you cant dump the game.If game does not provide fun or chalenge(if that is what you seek) dump it.
Thereâs nothing to disagree with.
I stated my stance on the game which is my stance alone.
That being said, hereâs something you can disagree with. The heroes are beginning to feel homogenized and it feels kind of stale to me.
2 Likes
I honestly cant be sure about that. I like reworked lucio quite a lot.Same for others. I think I hate how talents are being made or getting reworked. I think heroes need more unique talents that arent just some cc or cd reduction or dmg more,heal more.
Best case is malganis blind as a bat. I think more talents like those make heroes feel unique. After all standard talents are fine but when all heroes have similar talents its kinda boring.
Most kits are fine in my opinion. I rarely feel like heroes are that similar.
1 Like