Good bye hots good bye blizzard

General Discussion
84

And while you can tell how a hero may have lost impact from patch notes, I still think that you need a few games to fully understand how impactful you can still be, how much you actually lost, NEW ways you can be impactful, etc.

Ah, yeah. That is not my goal.
Well, given most of the complains on the forums tend to be about things that are over the developers heads (monetization), or are not reasonable (there is no matchmaker at all!) I guess I kinda do here.

IF there is a problem with the hero design that forces people into one path making a hero’s talents not-competitive.

I believe that would be the reasoning.
Given the developers claim of this being the 7th iteration of the rework, and the fact that one of the abilities they stripped that was constantly what everyone was pulled towards taking and dominated the talent tree.

Part of the benefit of talents is that there are choices. And when a talent outstrips everything either by being better, or feeling far better, sometimes destroying it is the only way to fix it.

I do think some of their reworks have been a bit of a “why” category. Lucio being the posterchild.

And here is an assumption you’re making that is part of the issue.

The developers have a range of winrates, 45-55%, that ideally every hero fits into.
Well, actually ideally everyone would be as close to 50% as possible.

But the idea they are doing a rework to nerf a hero, unless the hero is blatantly overpowered is wrong.

If there is a nerf to an area of a heroes power, there is likely buffs in other areas to make up for it. Or even in the same area, but in a way that requires different playstyles.

Here, with playstyles, you get into issue! It might be something where a niche playstyle now becomes “the norm” and the developers felt that it did fit the character’s fantasy.

And the community might reject it–I haven’t really seen the community overall reject one yet. But Whitemane might be the one.

Hard to say without knowing where their bottleneck would be.
Reworks generally take less animation/effects/art time as I understand it.

So if the bottleneck on new heroes is animation/effects/art… killing reworks would not do much.

I do think that they could choose their rework targets better. Although some of the heroes in “desperate” need of a rework probably would also need lots of art/effects/etc resources.

In this case no, as part of the issue with talent tree not feeling like it gave you choices due to the prevelance of a talent at either level 4 or 7. I don’t recall which was pointed out.

But they stated in their various reworks (this is the 7th one done internally, and now is being launched) until they removed it, it was causing problems.

These words are exactly why I have such “negative” responses to OPs about reworks.

yes, we all know that Stitches went from being a low winrate hero to being the lowest winrate hero with his rework.
And Sylvansis isn’t playable anymore.
Neither is Lucio or Chromie. Oh, and Chen, he is absolutely garbage tier now. Not playable.

All nerfed to unplayable with their reworks!

The words you’re saying here are just not true. There may be nerfs in some specific areas for example, sylvanas’s trait. Which is nice. I had 2 too many games lost because a team with Sylvanas got the first punisher and managed to push to our core. And I only had that happen 1 game!

completely agree.

1 Like
85

I dont want to be aggressive. But you are not a whitemane player right? There is no way absolutely no way to support this when someone knows how amazing her old feel was.

Whitemane had in fact talent diversity. Q build was much more bland, I call it uther build and it had similar power depending on the situation. Same for w. W was more versatile with more off fight heals and higher thought process. New whitemane has less diversity given how dramatically she could change through talents. They would have buffed other options instead. Rework was meant for accesibility. New whitemane has much smaller allocation of resource compared to old one and that part made her very skillbased combined with more busy buttons and tough positioning. Adding bland aa talents on a hero who already used aas for more impact(on point-important but not boring) is absurd. W feels awkward with new whitemane while old one had identity with her thirst-and amazinh thought process-.

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86

My current live experience against Whitemane is that she looked the same to play against.

So did junkrat.
Doesn’t mean there was healthy talent diversity.

Junkrat had issues for different reasons, but Whitemane has the same reasons.

Given Blizzard’s internal metrics and play testing of various states of rework had people trending towards one build on these reworks. Presumably until this iteration.

Again, playing against Whitemane so far… she seems the same to play against.
As an enemy she feels the same to me so far.

But we will see how the numbers settle. My first impressions playing against her may well be wrong.

87

Try her. Just play her for a game or two. Feel her out.

You’ll notice it quick enough.

88

Pardon me? Do you know how bursty old whitemane was when compared to this one? You perhaps havent faced a good one.

Old whitemane was maddening when she took the right risk and did the right amount of allocation after correctly analysing enemies commitment and maximized her w scenario.

89

Then you have no idea of Whitemane whatsoever and are just trolling.

This rework needs to be turned orange till one might think one ended up in the Netherlands.

90

She was OP. Bye, get rekt kid

91

Lolwhat?

Lowest wlr of all healers, one of the lowest if not the lowest playrate.

92

I don’t get the hype either way you go about it. I like Whitemane a lot as a character, but I’ve always felt she was a trash healer in this game. There are better characters to get mad about, imo.

93

that’s why we call it a dead game. chat bans are only tolerable under the condtion that people are following the rules and playing the game.

there are a huge number of people in 2019 who don’t play the game and happily troll afk or feed and cause problems that are 100s of times worse then anything anyone says in chat.

every time you lose players mm quality drops every time mm quality drops you lose more players. when you lose players from bans, quitting when a friend gets a bullsht ban for reacting to said trolls, then this what the op is saying both related to hereos or maps you lose players and mm quality drops with it.

you cant behave like this and expect to have a thriving game or community and all of these a$s hat companies due to their fair play alliance affiliation are doing it. there hasn’t been a single aaa multiplayer game in the last 10 years that was worth a damn because they keep killing the communities with these aspects. if you are going to ruin heroes and maps or force people to tolerate these feeders and afk and other problems then you have to allow people to btch and moan so they deflate.

there has been all kinds of nonsenses with people supporting hate speech laws recently as well as various anti consumer anti free speech practices from these companies. it needs to stop.

2 Likes
94

Much like Samuro, Whitemane’s a character who took a ton of work and practice to get legitimately good with, and rewarded it. She’s also mechanically unique among the entire cast, bringing a ton of mechanics no other character had.

Those of us who played her to that level are very attached as a result, as we can’t get her particular gameplay from anywhere else including other games, and the rework stripped her of that completely. I personally have just shy of a thousand games on her, holding down a 57% WLR.

For those of us who played her, the rework is a travesty because she’s dead, changed beyond all recognition. For those of us who have played with her in skilled hands, she was a unique experience to face. And for those who had neither, she was still a unique character.

And now she’s Tyrande’s level 1 talent.

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95

She didn’t have infinite mana for almost a year already, have you been keeping on with updates?

96

Not having to B is the same as infinite mana.

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97

You’re basically saying the same thing with different words.
Should I repeat my question again? Have you been following the updates before claiming something?
In another hot topic atm named “Press F for Whitemane” they whine and blame blizz that the hero had mana issues before, so the blizz just removes any mana restoration talents at all. Something doesn’t exactly match up with your words

98

I have tryed the rework out, and personaly i hate it, that is mostly due to that the way i build her is totaly gone, the core of that build is gone, and while i am sure some players will find this new rework fun i won’t, change can be good, but when they remove talents/ change them to this degree, its like a new character all togheter, and thats never good for players who already like the character, so this is it for me, whitemain is main no more :confused:

99

Then play 1000 more games and get good with her again? She feels almost exactly the same to me, and the only noticeable change is that she no longer has to talent that one damage spell to a heal option.
I don’t mean this in a “git gud” way, I’m just saying if you put that much effort into a character to learn her from the inside out, you can conceivably do it again to figure out her new nuances. I say this as a casual Whitemane player who wasn’t impressed with her before and still isn’t.

100

I can still crank out the healing with her. It’s not hard.

But it’s boring. Painfully, painfully boring. Put Q’s on people. Right click. Hold down E. Dodge ground AoE’s like everyone else.

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101

People with l2p issues don’t matter.

102

I love Whitemane as a character. Her personality stands out more then any other healer. And I love her offensive playstyle. But she is basically the Sombra of healers I think? She’s not good unless you are the guy who created this thread who gets 150k heals…@_@. I cannot consider characters that require a high high high skill requirement to be that great. Even though those tend to be the characters I use quite often lol. They end up being characters that devs are too afraid to mess with because the top 10% of players will destroy the world with them if they are buffed sightly too much, while regular human being players outside of a high elo will generally want you to pick another character with easier output. I wouldn’t consider characters like that to be very…healthy for the game. I worry that there are players who like her a lot but will always struggle while being told “whitemane is the best healer” by someone who watches high level players use her.

Musclegaymer lol. I like her name.

103

I’ve never played this hero, but I understand you and feel the same aftertaste of being a unique hero destroyed… :nauseated_face: