Full Hero concept - Karax

[MySelf-1883]

Full Hero Concept : Karax

With the fact that Tassadar’s role has changed from Support to Assassin, the protoss race is in dire need of a support. Which is why I am suggesting Karax as a potential next support unit for the protoss race.

this is a full hero concept, meaning all the skills, talents, damage, cooldown ect , are all included in here as well. It will be a large read to go through but I have formatted everything to make it a bit easier to read.

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KARAX

Origin : StarCraft
Race : Protoss

Class : Support

Strength : enabler and damage mitigation
Weakness : little means of options or defense if alone.

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BASE STATS ( Level 20 )

Health : 1630
Mana : 690

Health Regeneration : 6.2
Mana Regeneration : 4.86

Auto Attack Damage : 305
Auto Attack speed : 0.65
Auto Attack Range : 2.5

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RANGE (reference point)

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SKILLS AND TRAIT

Q- Warp-in : 10 seconds , range 6 , 35 mana.
Target enemy minion, instantly kill them and after 4 seconds , warp in an ally protoss unit. The resulting unit and bonus are based on the targeted unit . ( resulting units continue to behave like normal minions. )

Melee Minion = Sentinel ( +100% health / 100% attack damage )
Mage Minion = Energizer ( always active- guardian shield , provide nearby allies with 50 armor )
Archer Minion = Adept ( +100% damage against minions )
Catapult Minion = (mini) Immortal ( +100% damage against Structure )

*note : this skill is inspired from “reclamation” in LotV. the skill originally allows Karax to take any mechanical units from the enemy and use them as his own. given that minions arent really mechanical , i decided to tweak the functionality a bit to still allow the effect of instantly using more units but keep the protoss theme going. Sentinels are the Zealot equivalents for Karax , same for Energizers in regards to sentries . he does not however use Adepts, but it wasnt able to think of a better or more appropriate unit to use in place of the archer minions. i also thought of having the units able to be warped within the phase smith aura rather then using an enemy minion to do so, however i figured it would turn him into a monster summoner which wasnt the main goal of his kit , so limiting it to minion might be the best way to balance it while still giving it potential

W- Chrono Boost : 12 seconds , Range 4, 55 mana
Target ally Hero’s cooldowns refreshes 100% faster for 4 seconds . ( can be self cast )

E- Purification Nova: 12 seconds, collision vs walls, 75 mana.
Upon casting , Karax becomes immobile. After 0.75 seconds, launch a purification nova that can be controlled and moved (100% speed) . After 3.5 seconds. The projectile detonates and deal 750 damage to all enemy targets caught in it. (blast radius range 4)

(purification nova )

R1- Solar Lance : 90 seconds , Global, Vision required.
Karax becomes immobile during cast preparation, click a location for the starting point and a second time for the direction/ end location 3 times. After completing the 3rd one, all 3 lasers will come down from the sky and scorch the ground dealing 150 damage per second to all enemies caught in the initial locations and then 3 seconds later will move to their designated directions dealing 650 damage.
( global , vision required )

R2- Chrono Wave : 100 seconds, Temporary range 10 aura/21 radius , 150 mana
for 5 seconds all nearby ( range 10 ) ally heroes’ cooldown refreshes 100% faster and cost 50% less mana

Trait - Master Phase Smith : aura, range 5, total radius 11
Ally structures and minions attack 100% faster. ally heroes regenerate 2.0 mana per seconds and gain 100 shield per second up to 900 shields. the shield decays by 50 points each second upon leaving Master Phase Smith’s range. Karax regenerate those values at 50% rate.

Master Phase Smith aura is represented by the same visual as a pylon power’s field

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TALENTS

Level 1

Solar Forge – quest :
each regeneration globe increases Karax’s mana regeneration by 0.1 up to 1.5 and his mana pool by 5 .

Reward: all basic ability cooldown refreshes 50% faster when Karax is above 50% mana.

pride of the Phase Smith – Quest :
E, purification nova’s damage is permanently increased by 5 each time it damages an enemy hero. Bonus is double is purification nova kills an enemy hero.

Hand of the Phase Smith :
Trait, the healing effects of regeneration globes on ally heroes are extended for as long as the affected ally hero are within master phase smith aura. (does not apply to Karax)

Level 4

Khalai ingenuity :
Q, Warp-in gains an additional 2 charges and reduce the warp-in time by 2 seconds…

Chrono accelerator :

W, target’s base health and mana regeneration are increased by 250% for the duration of chrono boost.

Designated target :
trait, nearby structures and minions will prioritize enemy heroes as soon as they are within range.

Level 7

system disruption:
E, enemies hit by purification nova are silenced for 0.5 second and have their armor bonus removed for 3 seconds. (damage is applied before armor removal)

Primitive technology : 50 seconds, range 5
Active, Karax channels and target a nearby enemy structure and disables that structures preventing it from attacking for the duration of the channelling , up to 10 seconds . ( can be used on core but duration is reduced by 50%.)

Stable acceleration :
W, chrono boost’s duration is increased by 2 second

Level 10

R1- Solar Lance

R2- Chrono Wave :

Level 13

Purifier technology :
E, purification nova’s radius is increased by 2 .

Phasing projectile :
E, Purification nova can go through walls.

time warp : 60 seconds, range 2
Active, target mercenary camp or boss’ respawn location and instantly respawns them to allows to be defeated for capture. Refreshed camp will not display on enemy POV and will instead show regular cooldown. (cannot be used on a camp or boss if unit(s) are still active on the map)

Level 16

Warp Gate :
Q, Warp-in spawns 2 protoss unit instead of one.

Reconstruction Beam :
Trait : ally minions within Master Phase smith aura are healed by 175HP / seconds . structures are repaired for 1% HP per second. (up to 3 targets can be healed or repaired at the same time)

aggressive defense :
E, enemies hit by purification nova are blinded for 3 seconds and ally heroes within the blast radius instantly receive 450 shields. (shield last for 3 seconds)

Level 20

Scorched Earth :
R , Solar Lance leaves a trail of blue flames in its path dealing an additional 85 damage per second to enemy units . scorched earth last 10 seconds. (not stackable).

Chrono Overload :
R, Chrono wave duration is increased by 3 seconds and mana costs are reduced by an additional 25% .

Unity Barrier :

Trait, all ally hero gain 5 spell armor for each ally hero within Master Phase smith aura, up to a maximum of 25 spell armor. (including Karax)

Purifier protocol
E, Purification nova’s movement speed is increased by 20% and can be detonated early manually.

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overall , Karax would be a great addition to the Hots roster, and would likely be one of the most fitting for the role of a support character. able to assist in ways different than direct healing , but also enables his own team . he would also be flexible enough to focus either on lane pushing, supporting his team , or dealing damage based on the needs of his team but would be left highly vulnerable if faced in a 1v1 without any allies or minion close to assist him.

he also has his own model in SC2 . in term character design it would possibly make things simpler and import his actual character model in Hots.

note : i did posted the concept both here and in the hero suggestion because of the lower tracking in the hero suggestion.

[Kriogan-2602]

Very cool concept :o I think the Q being dependent on having enemy minions around would be awkward on a lot of objectives, and the minion you summon from it could easily be countered by having some decent waveclear heroes. Having a short cd mini nano-boost for a W would also very quickly turn some heroes into absolute monsters with some nuts dmg outputs (or healing for that matter). Same for the aoe nano ult. I really like the solar lance ult though. I think supports are hard to balance, because of their potential to break the balance of other heroes. Overall I think if this was to work, it would require some really major number tweaks. But you took the time to make this, and I think that is very nice.

[Yusuke-2949]

Support? I thought you want a healer for the protoss?

[Phlynch-1710]

Hero and skin suggestion forum is that way > Hero and Skin Suggestions - Heroes of the Storm Forums

[MySelf-1883]

@Yusuke-2949

Support? I thought you want a healer for the protoss?

i definitely meant a support, my apologies if i said Healer
i love healer roles, but i love that a character can benefits its team with more than just heals which is what got me to think about this concept.

@Kriogan-2602

I think the Q being dependent on having enemy minions around would be awkward on a lot of objectives,

i agree, thing is , i was thinkign that if the units placement would be free, then he would likely become a mini spamable army, which was definitely not what i was having in mind, but rather, set out units in a lane, rush for objectives and let the protoss unit push the enemy lanes. however with the right talents, he could have some good potential fighting inlanes when minions are present.

@Kriogan-2602

Having a short cd mini nano-boost for a W would also very quickly turn some heroes into absolute monsters with some nuts dmg outputs (or healing for that matter). Same for the aoe nano ult.

i was and still am quite worried of that too, but i considered a few things first.
but i compared him with some other heroes , like ana or reghar and found a few different that may compensate. he has no slow, stun, knock back , sleep, no DoT , no burst heal. during fights in between lanes his Q / warp-in serves little to no utility at all. his health pool is among the lowest in the game , he has no means of escape, his AA speed is on par with deathwing and stukov which both ties at the slowest AA in hte game as well. if we look at characters like Ana , she has heal prevention, heal burst, sleep, DoT , map wide almost instant hit and her nano boost restores mana in a burst as well as higher CDR + spell damage bonus. if we look reghar, his AA actually surpasses most of the roster in term of raw strength which many underestimate , making him an excellent finisher in fights. he got decent damage potential with shield and great escape with his insta wolf form. and for bloodlust, that skill provide AA speed , movements and life leech.

that was why i thought given all the disadvantage he had compared to other healer , he might be good to have stronger base skills instead. maybe im totally wrong and even with all that he would be way too OP lol would you have any suggestions regarding how it could maybe be tweaked ? it is deffintely possible to become work-blinded when spending sometimes on a project regardless of its size .

@Kriogan-2602

I really like the solar lance ult though.

awesome ! its a fun skill to use in SC2 and figured it would likely translate well in Hots.

@Kriogan-2602

I think supports are hard to balance, because of their potential to break the balance of other heroes. Overall I think if this was to work, it would require some really major number tweaks. But you took the time to make this, and I think that is very nice.

thanks ! and yes i agree , since they dont act as simple as , character A heals character B ,and usually influence the game in more unorthodox ways , its more difficult to do so plus their potential to pair well with certain character can create scary combinations, like ana/li ming / kel thuzad / kael tas or abathur / illidan.

@Phlynch-1710

Hero and skin suggestion forum is that way > Hero and Skin Suggestions - Heroes of the Storm Forums

i know, i posted it there too, reason i placed it here as well is usually that side has a low traffic and not much chance to get imputs and ideas from the community. same applies when people post rework suggestions or skill revamp here on this side too, i actually like to have everything mixed rather than dividing our own community with sub sections.

[Sadius-21711]

Cool concept, I would try him.

[Alias-2471]

@MySelf-1883

W- Chrono Boost : 12 seconds , Range 4, 55 mana
Target ally Hero’s cooldowns refreshes 100% faster for 4 seconds . ( can be self cast )

So for each 12 seconds, you are granting 4 seconds worth of cooldown to someone. Im not sure how some heroes will benefit here, but i suspect that in some cases there can be flaws where the cooldown is ment to remain at a certain time.
I however think that this becomes a bit too mandatory to spam with certain heroes. And the 4 range doesnt sound well on it as it means you are generaly only going to boost your backline mages (why not a larger range and allow tanks aswel?).

I also think that this could be more interesting if it was a morales style mechanic where you can just toggle it on and off and cast it on someone else. This suits the mechanic of the chrono boost of protos in sc2 better and becomes less micro heavy.

@MySelf-1883

E- Purification Nova: 12 seconds, collision vs walls, 75 mana.
Upon casting , Karax becomes immobile. After 0.75 seconds, launch a purification nova that can be controlled and moved (100% speed) . After 3.5 seconds. The projectile detonates and deal 750 damage to all enemy targets caught in it. (blast radius range 4)

Sounds like a very heavy self root worth 4.25 seconds. There is a reason why guldans self root is bad for combat.

I would alter this mechanic to be a bit more in line with the normal spear of adun shots in which you get charges, and each charge is simply launched and detonates a second later.

@MySelf-1883

R1- Solar Lance : 90 seconds , Global, Vision required.

I think that the self root here is again not helpful because for your W you need to remain close. And constant self rooting makes you extremely vulnerable.

What if instead of self rooting, you can still cast the abilities while walking around, but you simply get a time restricting on using the lances. There are already visible cooldown effects that can indicate such time restriction, so i dont see the issue there.

Also, karax can normaly use the 3 lines seperately (you can use them after each other to optimize the zoning potential), which i think should be preserved here.

@MySelf-1883

R2- Chrono Wave : 100 seconds, Temporary range 10 aura/21 radius , 150 mana
for 5 seconds all nearby ( range 10 ) ally heroes’ cooldown refreshes 100% faster and cost 50% less mana

Chrono Wave compared to Chrono Boost sounds very weak. a 100s cooldown, to grant only like 25s worth of cooldown at its optimal case. The mana isnt even going to be noticed that much. Even more because you already have passive generation from the trait.
I think this one needs a passive with it to become better.

And yes, i did compare to ana which grants about 12 seconds worth of cooldown, , 200 mana and 30% spell power. 25 seconds isnt realy a lot when those cooldowns arent used on an optimal target. A mage would only get about 40% of the cooldown value compared to ana.

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And another reason why self rooting should be avoided (even though in sc2 it appears like it should behave like that) is because technicaly karax isnt even rooted, all units can still attack as usualy, its just that you cannot give new commands.

[Mocky-2168]

seems ambitious
I don’t even mind the unit spam all that much (tho it will need tweaking), but the chronoboost and the trait seem really strong.
The trait makes minions and structures deal twice the dmg, allies recover more mana and gain shields. It would prbly be wise to have talents that would allow him to choose 1 of these effects. And maybe make him actually use D on allies to activate it too.
And the chronoboost might be better as a 1 ability and give him another W which does something more immediate.

His auto attack is also ranged right? I always imagined Karax to not walk with his own legs but rather be in a quadruped immortal type vehicle with a big mecha arm that can do slow but strong auto attacks kinda like Stukov.
I think that could be more interesting combined with his Purification Nova. You could then also give him a Z ability if you like ;D

Interesting concept. Karax is one of those heroes that isn’t terribly high the priority list. But he would be nice to have one of these days.

[MySelf-1883]

@Alias-2471

So for each 12 seconds, you are granting 4 seconds worth of cooldown to someone. Im not sure how some heroes will benefit here, but i suspect that in some cases there can be flaws where the cooldown is ment to remain at a certain time.

it was meant to pair with other characters in order to enable more healing, CC or damage. you are likely right there.

i really love your idea of toggle on and off for the morales style of play , im just worried it would be too similar in style to morales .
in general in SC2 chrono boost is something you have to constantly micro and apply on your structures for restearch or production , would it still be fitting to have as a single target toggle ?

@Alias-2471

Sounds like a very heavy self root worth 4.25 seconds. There is a reason why guldans self root is bad for combat

the skill was inspired of the disruptions but the self root was to make sure Karax would have good exploitable weakness. last thing i wanted was to have a OP hero concept lol

@Alias-2471

I think that the self root here is again not helpful because for your W you need to remain close. And constant self rooting makes you extremely vulnerable.

that was kinda the point to make him vulnerable , i purposely designed him with rooting, low health, slow attack , no engage or disengage to make sure he wouldnt be broken and his weakness could be abused if he was open. the way your talking i think i may have went overboard to make him intentionally weak in some cases

@Alias-2471

What if instead of self rooting, you can still cast the abilities while walking around, but you simply get a time restricting on using the lances. There are already visible cooldown effects that can indicate such time restriction, so i dont see the issue there.

i’d love this really !

@Alias-2471

karax can normaly use the 3 lines seperately (you can use them after each other to optimize the zoning potential), which i think should be preserved here.

agreed ! the reason i decided to have all 3 lasers move simultaneously at the end was to prevent camping , or stalling too long at locations.

@Alias-2471

Chrono Wave compared to Chrono Boost sounds very weak. a 100s cooldown, to grant only like 25s worth of cooldown at its optimal case. The mana isnt even going to be noticed that much. Even more because you already have passive generation from the trait.
I think this one needs a passive with it to become better.

im honesty surprised in a way because i was scared of how OP it could be or how well it could pair with certain abilities.

@Alias-2471

And another reason why self rooting should be avoided (even though in sc2 it appears like it should behave like that) is because technicaly karax isnt even rooted, all units can still attack as usualy, its just that you cannot give new commands.

very good point !

@Mocky-2168

It would prbly be wise to have talents that would allow him to choose 1 of these effects. And maybe make him actually use D on allies to activate it too.

thats a really good idea to balance it out :+ !

@Mocky-2168

His auto attack is also ranged right? I always imagined Karax to not walk with his own legs but rather be in a quadruped immortal type vehicle with a big mecha arm that can do slow but strong auto attacks kinda like Stukov.

it was meant to be melee , sorry for missing out that detail.

@Mocky-2168

I think that could be more interesting combined with his Purification Nova. You could then also give him a Z ability if you like ;D

im absolutely open to ideas , i didnt even considered something with Z !

@Mocky-2168

Karax is one of those heroes that isn’t terribly high the priority list.

i know,
but he’s awesome ! he’ a space black smith lol

[gaston205-1951]

Frankly, I’m just happy that someone is offering a protoss support replacement for Tass that doesn’t involve pointlessly having the hero grant shields.

Seems like a solid kit, and I definitely think he is next in line from the sc2 roster

[Mocky-2168]

@gaston205-1951

Seems like a solid kit, and I definitely think he is next in line from the sc2 roster

well… for people that keep score… like me ;D

Protoss

• Artanis,
• Fenix
• Alarak
• Zeratul
• Tassadar
• Probius

Terran

• Raynor
• Tychus
• Morales
• Blaze
• Hammer
• Nova
• Stukov 1/2

Zerg

• Abathur
• Kerrigan
• Dehaka
• Zagara
• Stukov 1/2

Results

That’s 6 for Protoss, 6.5 for Terrans and 4.5 for Zerg
I think we need another Zerg ;D
Even if we count Stukov as full Zerg, that would still leave us with 6,6,5.

[MySelf-1883]

for the zerg i would had love to have a support style SC1 queen !
but since the arrival of Deathwing, i think Zurvan would be a great addition as a second giant character.

but after we have a support protoss that is !
the swarm can wait !

[Shapeshifter-21359]

I might remember wrong, but I think Karax was already one of the heroes data mined in the large data mining on Reddit where dozens of heroes were uncovered in almost chronological order.

So there is a good chance he either exists already as an unfinished concept or could be released some day (i.e. some of his files, portraits or voice interactions are already hidden in the client).

At the very least there is a 99% higher chance he will be released than most other concepts.

[gaston205-1951]

While I see where you are coming from, there just aren’t that many Zerg characters or units that could reasonably turned into a character. The closest we have is maybe Zurvan

[MySelf-1883]

@gaston205-1951

there just aren’t that many Zerg characters or units that

id beg to differ there, we do have a fair amount of zerg units that could be used,
the over mind has been highly requested,
zulvan would be a good add , but there are other zerg encounted during Hots that would be a good adition to Hots !

[Mocky-2168]

Oh Zurvan? I hadn’t even considered him, I don’t think so… just how…? ;D
I thought more in the lines of Izsha or maybe one the other Primal Pack leaders… tho I wouldn’t hold my breath for any of them either lol.
There’s plenty of units you can still turn to heroes like Lurker or Defiler.

I actually made a concept a little while ago for a Zerg Morphling. I’m very biased in the matter, but that would be my pick for the next SC hero ;D

[HC] Zerg Morphling

Insipiration This Hero is inspired by a SC2 Heart of the Swarm Map where Kerrigan puts a Larva into a Protoss Host who is then warped onto a Protoss vessel. The Larva instantly bursts out of her to morph, evolve, grow, adapt and eventually takes over the whole ship. That combined with some Natural Selection 2. Synopsis The basic gist is that you start off as a Larva and you can morph into different zerg creatures. You can take the form of a melee stealth character with burrow, or a flying …

[anon80712462]

Nice hero concept,the build/kit seems good and hopefully to see a new SC hero in the game soon.would love to play with a strategic hero in the game too.

[Keigami-1331]

Love the concept. I love the unconventional heroes, especially summoner types who specialize in lane play. I just want to offer some advice and tweaks to help make it look better.

~ Q: Make the Sentiel +50%hp/+50% damage so as to distinguish it from the Adept a little more. Also the Energizer should only give armor to ally minions (or just clarfiy it if that’s already the case).
~R2: This is too similar to W, and feels like it would be better as a level 20 talent instead to make W apply to all nearby allies. I don’t know enough about Karax to know what to replace it with, but maybe since they’re a “builder” something like building on destroyed forts?

~ Hand of the Phase Smith: You need to set a max duration or amount, because you really can’t have heroes getting potential full heals off just a single globe.

~ Primitive Technology: The max duration should be 5 seconds (10 seconds is just way too long, just about anything could destroy a fort in that time).

~ Reconstruction Beam: Since this has to do with repairing structures, it should probably be either a level 1 or 4 talent. I also feel it should be an activated ability with a more burst heal (that way you don’t have to sit around for minutes repairing structures).

~Aggressive Defense: I’d say the blind duration should be only be 1.5 seconds, because you’ve also got a 0.5 second silence talent too.

[Alias-2471]

@MySelf-1883

that was kinda the point to make him vulnerable , i purposely designed him with rooting, low health, slow attack , no engage or disengage to make sure he wouldnt be broken and his weakness could be abused if he was open. the way your talking i think i may have went overboard to make him intentionally weak in some cases

Rooting isnt realy the issue on its own, but to assist a tank, you have to be within a closer range than tychus to assist. Which makes you an easy target, which for a healer type of support is often bad. With extra range it can be fine though (see anduin, and partialy whitemane).

And i think that for W its vital that you can support all heroes, otherwise you only become a mage booster, in which case you might have been better of being a mage yourself.

So some rooting isnt an issue, but the many 2+ seconds roots were in this case a bit excessive and to me even feel out of place.

If you however want a lot of rooting, and you want it to be a main part of your W, maybe another way would be to make it work like morales, except you are always rooted while its active, but the boost it gives is a bit larger (extra mana generation?). This can easily cause karax to self root him for 10 seconds, if for example his range would be like 8.

This could even become a better way to merge with your E idea if it can still be used while you are self rooted, and provides some sort of self defense if suddenly being dived and not quickly able to retreat.

[MySelf-1883]

@anon80712462

Nice hero concept,all build/kit seems good,hopefully to see a new SC hero in the game soon.would love to play with a strategic hero in the game too.

thanks !

i feel we have too many heroes that are too simplistic now and are just damage focused.
it would be nice to have something focusing on different elements of the game rather than pure healing or damage.

@Keigami-1331

~R2: This is too similar to W, and feels like it would be better as a level 20 talent instead to make W apply to all nearby allies. I don’t know enough about Karax to know what to replace it with, but maybe since they’re a “builder” something like building on destroyed forts?

you are deffintely right on this,
i thought more about this and there is actually a structure that he can use in game called a Khaydarin Monolith,

here is the description of the structure : "Extremely powerful defensive structure. Has superior range and damage, but is very expensive and attacks slowly.
Can attack ground and air units. "

it fires strong beams at a target, it would be pretty fitting possibly but im fearing it would be too close to tychus’s ult.

@Keigami-1331

~ Hand of the Phase Smith: You need to set a max duration or amount, because you really can’t have heroes getting potential full heals off just a single globe.

we actually have such hero, imperius can actually go from 1-100% with a single glove with the right talent , ( 4 or 7 i think ) .
however his drawback is that he needs to continously keep fighting in order to happen. i thought the draw back for Karax being that the player needed to stay close but your suggestion for a max duration is likely the better way to go !

@Keigami-1331

~ Primitive Technology: The max duration should be 5 seconds (10 seconds is just way too long, just about anything could destroy a fort in that time).

true !

@Keigami-1331

~ Reconstruction Beam: Since this has to do with repairing structures, it should probably be either a level 1 or 4 talent. I also feel it should be an activated ability with a more burst heal (that way you don’t have to sit around for minutes repairing structures).

that was litteraly what i had in mind XD, when your team would have an advantage and your help isnt currently needed , karax would go repair structures, and help clear lanes before going back to the action . this might be a bit too boring though gameplay wise lol

@Keigami-1331

~Aggressive Defense: I’d say the blind duration should be only be 1.5 seconds, because you’ve also got a 0.5 second silence talent too.

good idea, blind + silence is usually pretty strong when combined.

@Alias-2471

So some rooting isnt an issue, but the many 2+ seconds roots were in this case a bit excessive and to me even feel out of place.

the original intent of the rooting was to create weakness within Karax’ kit.
i thought that due to the fact of his providing perpetual armor to himself and his team , having him have just about the same HP as murky might be good but felt the rate of armor regeneration was still a bit too much to make sure he wouldnt be OP. so thats why i thought that if he would have an additional handicap he might be more balanced .

rooting isnt mandatory but in your opinion, would his low HP alone would be enough to compensate his strengths ? was it overboard to go with extra self root on top of it all ?