(I guess the lack of answer for my questions means you did not play DW or at least not that talent. Am I right?)
I’d say, the time/duration is more meanigful than the mere and naked keywords.
Faster than 0.75? >.> 100-0? I doubt that.
He’s too big to be able to easily hide behind others.
If he hides behind his allies, he’s less effective (a lot less) and you can jump on those allies while he can’t do much about it.
Also, if you’re curious, I was bursted down even with that talent pretty quickly.
Not talking about the obvious counterplay of: paying attention to his talents and hp so you know when you’d miss dmg or not and you can just stop while you already do when you face Medivh, Varian or Genji.
Found your problem. You bring up a Hero who is designed around his CC to say how strong DW is… He’s supposed to be your counter. Not vice-versa.
And… tbh… with careful plays and building, you’d be able to terrorize a DW who took the protected instead of the W build.
Why D.va though? She really suffers without a healer patching her up. Sure, she could sacrifice her Self-Destruct in order to regain a full health Mech for free but unless you have some assurance you can recoup the charge before you’d need that ability again it’s a bad idea. Her lack of consistent self-sustain is why she isn’t a solo laner even though she is a bruiser with passable waveclear.
I wasn’t talking about “hiding”, i meant put your team between you and them, after you’ve already caused the damage you needed and have tanked enough for your team.
And yes, i usually get deleted around that time in late game, when there are li mings, orpheas, kael’thas, chromies and some stuns involved, but i’m only killed that fast when the whole team gangs on me, but many times i have died with stun chains without being able to do anything, something that DW is just immune.
And no, butcher is not the only who gets outweight by deathwing, that was just one scenario. I did managed to win against one as butcher but was by outfarming his team and feeding myself in their murky, and my team was not afraid of fighting them, so we just ignored (tried) to ignore DW and it worked most of the time.
I’m not saying that is impossible to kill DW, just saying that compared to the others, his kit has way too many benefits for the pity drawback of not being healed / buffed by his team mates (when he can be healed from globes / fountain).
If he was pure melee and was somewhat easy to poke (like Dehaka) it would fairer, but the guy is even good at ranged… And on top of all that, he still have an AOE stun and fear… He’s almost Cho’Gall levels of threat at this point, if not higher.
Keep in mind: No Heal in Game, one sided matched DW:
3200 base hp, unstoppable, up to 40 Armor, +100% spelldmg to heroes, easy escape abilities, global mobility with selfheal included, can’t be healed anyways - and you gonna tell us, he has a harder time vs no heal teams than other heroes? c’mon. Even if you are able to focus him, his team wont stand still for this moment.
in this scenario any teamfight vs him feels like fighting outnumbered.
So stop mindlessly brawling in mid, and out-macro his team? He cannot rotate reliably, his PvE is on the weak side, and if you push all his lanes in, he will be limited in where he can land from Dragonflight. Granted, he is strong in a team fight, so one way to beat him is to avoid unnecessary team fights, and force his team to split up. He actually isn’t all that good at most 1v1 match ups, especially against sustained damage.
see, i do know how to counter DW. but to be able to counter him makes no difference to the fact, that his trait becomes op if no healer is in game so the biggest disadvantage of his trait is applied to everybody. i just dont want him to be matched one-sided in that case. if he is matched to both sides in this scenario, everything is fine to me.
Imagine a team with DW but no heal in it abusing this advantage by queueing as 5: Every time DW does not appear in enemy team, it’s a free win for them.
I don’t understand why not preventing this. it would make no difference in waiting time for all players except DW, and for DW it’s just to wait for another dw (or 2 additional healers), if the scenario may appear.
Easy to implement, no considerable negatives, result: much better gaming experience in this special scenario.
Dude. Do you play DW or you just assume that his trait makes him op without a Healer just because you or your allies don’t know how to play against him and end up dying?
Also there are quite an amount of Supports, Tanks and Bruisers who are also unable to buff DW but can the others.
if his trait is balanced under normal conditions, and the biggest disadvantage to balance the enormous advantages of his trait is applied to everyone because no healer is in game, it’s no disadvantage anymore. So how can his trait be balanced anymore? Exactly! it’s unbalanced now. if it is unbalanced, it’s op or up, op in this case.
If you don’t see the point here, we can end the discussion.
You already said those things. I (and others) already used that flawed argument of yours to “prove” everyone is op.
Plus those are big logical jumps you have there…
I also showed you that how rare it is to have a match where his trait has no downsides.
His trait is a negative and a positive thing in “normal games”. It’s a double edged sword. It limits him, his team, but also helps his team.
I can also speak from experience that having 1 less dmg but a Healer on the enemy makes my job as DW easier. While having 5 dmg to face as him is a little nightmare.
I ask you one last time… did you play DW yourself or you just mindlessly repeat your flawed arguement filled with logical jumps and holes just because you got dominated in QM by him because you or your allies messed up?
A bigger nightmare than to any other bruiser? c’mon, you MUST be joking.
Name one Bruiser or even Tank who has an easier Life in that situation than DW, pls. Any other Bruiser/Tank must fear CC+focus, DW can decide to leave the fight whenever he wants to; you cant stop him doing this. Try to focus him in 5v5, and watch how many Teammates are already died w/o heal, when he does one onslaught backwards and walks unstoppable out of combat.
That’s a big jump again just to try to bend the conversation into situations where you can keep up your flawed narrative.
But if you’re curious: yes.
Because other Bruisers can heal themselves back. Thrall for example with his insane selfheals is a lot more fine in those situations and is a lot more “unfair” in a no-Healer game. Because he alone has a ton of selfheal. Plus he can actually rotate normally.
In what situation? You quoted yourself there listing his kit. No other Hero has his kit otherwise there’d be two DWs.
In no-Healer games?
Thrall. Rexxar. Malthael. Diablo. Varian. Tyrael. ETC. Yrel.
Just to name a few. These Heroes have insane selfheals or can heal their team while the other team has no Healing at all.
selfheal is nearly worth nothing in that situation. All those Heroes you listed still have to fear CC+focus. Put one or maybe two stun or mute or blind or AA slow (whatever the selfheal comes from) on them and selfheal and escape is gone. Try to do this to DW.
w/o heal in their back? vs an enemy team w/o heal = +1 dmg dealer in a 5v5 fight? Sure they do. I’m playing tank/bruiser a lot too. Hell yeah, i would fear CC+focus in that situation, esp. if I’m solo frontline (not part of the scenario).
When I wrote that I didn’t see your edit which clarifies what you mean.
Johanna doesn’t need to fear chain CC.
Varian with protected at 10 doesn’t have to fear CC.
Stitches doesn’t have to fear it.
Diablo doesn’t have to fear it.
Garrosh, Blaze, Leoric don’t have to fear it.