Guess what: this also is additionally valid for DW too. No %dmg in enemy Team, Mass Stun/root/slow in own team, etc.
if the disadvatage he gets in exchange for this advantage is equalized, yes.
%dmg isn’t his only counter. Still missing the point either way though: QM hasn’t been balanced for a long time. DW is just the hot new thing that happened to remind people about that.
but it is one of them. Do you know the meaning of “etc”?
Edit:
…and has a 5 sec CD GapCloser/Escape too.
I would say more about the permanent unstopable part. It’s kinda hard (not to say impossible) to kill someone who can just walk away from all your stuns / roots / slows and all that.
And in case it wasn’t already too hard to kill him, he will gain the protected stats every time he loses a part of his health, so you can’t even suicide burst him, and his team probrably won’t stand still while you try to get his health down either, so yeah, good luck there.
I get the feeling you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing if this is the line you’re going to go with. There’s no substance to any of your posts.
Deathwing’s +100% hero damage is actually a downside. It’s the same as -100% damage to non-heroes, because his PVE damage is utter crap.
Deathwing’s hero damage is about average for a bruiser (maybe a bit above average, but not extremely so). It’s just that Deathwing is balanced around how easy is it to dodge his abilities, and minions can’t dodge. Therefore, it would be OP if he did full damage to them, so he doesn’t.
Illidan can stick to targets and heal himself while dealing dmg inn exchange of him dying if the enemy stops him doing so or has higher dmg than his sustain. If the random chaos QM is happens to not provide those things, Illidan can be a really tough enemy.
Just to make one example about your argument which could be applied to many Heroes you have no problem with.
That’s a talent which leaves him without meaningful selfustain.
This is the proof that yet again, ppl don’t know, but assume. Like all the time.
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Which is short and makes him to sit like a duck for 0.5 sec.
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Was that supposed to be bad?
Let me sum it up for you. The guy have 40 armor, imunne to any crowd control in the game, and gets protected everytime he loses 1/4 of his health to protect him from bursts… I would gladly trade my sustain on Kharazim for that anytime.
No crap, Kharazim can actually respond to being chased and catch up to fleeing targets. Deathwing cannot do either of those things. One of his major weaknesses is how cumbersome he is. He has a very hard time disengaging from bad situations.
Also, Draconic Might is only good versus Kharazim with Seven-Sided Strike. No one else deals that much damage fast enough for 0.75s given after damage has already been dealt to matter.
Let me fix that for you, because what you say still doesn’t describe what’s reality:
DW starts with 40 armor what he slowly losses for every milestone of hp (75%, 50%, 25%) he gets below.
If you pick a lvl 1 talent (trading your only real selfsustain for it), you’ll get 0.75 sec protected every time you loses armor (your Plates).
So if you were 100% hp with 40 armor and you get to 75%, you lose 10 armor and get 0.75 sec protected. But if you heal back to 100% but remain at 30 armor, you won’t get protected when you get below 75%, only if you lose another Plate while getting below 50%. Which means the next time you need to get below 25% to gain protected.
If you’d still trade this to Kharazim’s selfsustain you’d get easily bamboozled if trading powers and effects were the “money” in our world.
And he’s not immune to every CC, TimeStop effects him. He can also be debuffed (armor, dmg and healing reduction; blinds).
And being the only one immune to CC can also backfire (Mighty Gust, Flailing Swipe, Lorenado).
It’s becoming a little less horrible over time, at least one in three games of EU quick match result with no DW on either side, and the mirror games are slowly phasing out.
Well, Kharazim can also be perma CC and die in team fights without doing anything, he won’t have any armor (aside from the lvl 13 talent that gives him armor when he’s stunned) and he can only deal any kind of damage in close combat.
Other than that he doesn’t have any way to disable his target, so when he uses his Q charges, the target will just walk away from you.
What are you talking about? The guy is literally imune to any kind of CC, all he need to do is walk away. Only those pesky heroes like Tracer and Illidan will be able to stick with him, in which case he can just turn on and kill them, and he also have his whole team to help.
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Ever since the patch I find Kharazim a much better support than before. He didn’t receive any changes but the lane dynamics work in his favour as is the case with most melee. He can more easily deny a lot of XP himself and his end game stats are heavily inflated because of the new anomaly mechanic.
Yea if he does literally nothing just walks away (because all of his abilities are massively delayed and make him lose distance), he might be able to escape if the enemy can’t kill him in time or follow him (because they walk at the same speed unless DW’s enemies have movespeed bonus, which isn’t rare).
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Yeah, but i guess we can agree that if you fight someone who have 0 armor, you are already at a major disadvantage, not to mention DW’s hp is not really low either…
Kharazim’s sustain requires him to be at close range hitting things with 0 armor, blind aside, there’s nothing stopping the enemy team from stun / silence or just bursting you down.
And this trade is a no brainer. Let’s say a fight happens every 2 minutes, DW could just go to lane and gather healing globes or go to the healing fountain, and doing so will allow him to have a ridiculous strong team fight potential with that protected status.
And he’s not exactly something your team can ignore either, but if you focus him on team fights, not only will take a lot (thanks to those 0.75 sec that he’s invulnerable), but you’ll also need to tank the whole enemy team in order to focus him.
I’ve been chased to death by the Vikings before. Crowd control shmowd control. Deathwing cannot shake enemies without the help of allies. At all.
Did you try that talent (or DW itself) yourself out? Because that talent is only valuable in my eyes if I face either Kharazim or Leo (maybe Tychus) and in no other sutation.
Why? Because 0.75 sec protected is really short. I play Medivh a lot (big reveal, I know :'D) and even his 1.5 sec protected (which heals you as well!) is close to meaningless if it’s not timed to def a big burst. Twice the duration. Means nothing if you can’t time it. DW can’t time it.
And it’s not like that protected does’t goes to waste easily. Like if you have dot or some last AAs got you and you lose a Plate you got the protected for nothing.
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Yeah, and you could just turn around and swallow those vikings whole if you wanted…
That’s the point. This is team game, his allies will always be there with him, all he needs to do is run to his allies and they will gang on you.
That’s the same thing a DW was doing in my match, he was whecking my backline until my team got him to 2 plates and run to the enemy team, the guys were so drained from the team fight (since they ignored the enemy team and focus death wing while they were just free hitting) that we could do nothing but run.
It’s not the time that’s important here, it’s the status. I’ve been deleted from team fights way faster than that when the enemy team decided to stun and focus me, if he gets protected everytime he loses a plate, that means you’ll have to burst him 3 times to kill him, and that is WITHOUT stunning / rooting / slowing him. He’s like a Varian with way more aoe potential that can’t get stunned and is much harder to kill.
So it’s extremely easy for him to just hide behind his team after taking a L and losing two plates in exchange for your precious cooldown, and while you’re trying to kill him, the enemy team will be free to jump on you.
Seriously, what is better, ignore him and try to kill the more vunerable targets (while he bites you) or waste around 5 - 10 seconds focusing him while tanking the rest of the enemy team?
I tried to do both as butcher and neither worked very well, when i went for him (with that 10% hp charge), his protected activated and i couldn’t do anything, not to mention that even without it i can’t really stick to him without slows since i can’t attack while moving, if i went to their healer or other back line member, he would turn around and stun me, and the rest of the team would finish me off.
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