CDC #13: Blackthorne (Classic)

Blackthorne

CDC Patch notes

Patch 2.2 (final patch!)

  • Tweaked a few talents
  • Buffed Lurk by allowing Blackthorne to go invisible after Lurking for a significant portion of time.

Patch 2.1

  • Nerfed health a small bit and increased Lurk’s Armor Bonus to 40.
  • Made the tooltip of Lurk more clear.
  • Nerfed Remote Wasp (and consequently Twin Wasp’s) damage by 15%
  • Reworked capstone talents Master Trapper and Darkstone of Ka’dra’suul
  • Remote Wasp takes much longer to stealth now.

Patch 2.0.1

  • fixed a stupid typo I noticed

Patch 2.0:

  • Heavily reworked talent tree
  • Slightly reworked D: Lurk (a nerf overall, no baseline armor and armor out of stealth lowered from 50 to 35, though it lasts longer.
  • Significantly buffed health (from 1051 to 1201.)
  • Slightly buffed basic attack speed. (From 1.3 attacks per sec to 1.4)
  • Slightly nerfed Remote Wasp. (Stuns for 0.25 less second)

Patch 1.2:

  • Talents added.
  • Reverted health and autoattack damage back down, now factoring in talents for balance.
  • nerfed Reckless Barrage’s shrapnel from 110 damage to 90 damage.

Patch 1.1:

  • Health increased by 100, and Autoattack damage increases to 91. (Factoring in +40% from W: Passive, that’s about 130.)
  • Combat Roll’s CD reduction redesigned to a one time reduction per roll. (Overall nerf, helps in skirmishing)
  • Lightstone is now an instant cast. Lightstone healing nerfed from 100% to 50% Lightstone’s movement speed increase increased from 15% to 20%
  • Remote Wasp cooldown nerfed from 60 seconds to 80 seconds. Remote Wasp now has a 5 second arming timer before it can detonate. Remote wasp now deals more damage (from 447 to 487) and stuns for slightly longer (from 1 second to 1.25 seconds)
  • fixed some typos and other errors.
  • Level 4 Talents and Storm Talents added.

Patch 1.0: Blackthorne is released.

Kyle has become a renowned military captain and mercenary, as well as Conqueror and King of Androth and Ka’Dra’Suul. After ruling peacefully, Kyle begins having strange dreams, and eventually is re-confronted by Galadril. He is told that it is time to conquer the Nexus.

Strengths:

  • Burst Damage
  • Mobility
  • Stealth

Weaknesses:

  • Low Health
  • Requires Set-up
  • Map Awareness

Universe: Blizzard Classic
Role: Ranged Assassin
Difficulty: Very Hard
Hitpoints: 1151 (+4% per level)
HP Regen: 2.4/sec (+4% per level)
Basic Attack: 83 (+4% per level) damage, 1.4 attacks per second, 4 range.

Developer Notes

Blackthorne is surprisingly fragile compared to other characters, and doesn’t have a secondary resource. Instead, Blackthorne relies on his trait and careful planning to deal maximum damage and survive deadly encounters.
He has good synergy with heroes who can give him HoTs (Heals over time), as well as characters who can stun/disable enemy heroes.
He is however countered by heroes with good AOE damage, DoTs (damage over time), as well as %damage.


Default Mount
Z (Mount) – (4 sec cooldown)

It’s… just a default mount.


Lurk
Trait (Passive):

When Blackthorne stands still adjacent to a wall for 1 second, he gains stealth. Moving in anyway, attacking, using Abilities, or Channeling ends Stealth. If Blackthorne spends 3 seconds stealthed, he turns invisible.

If Blackthorne breaks stealth by basic attacking or casting an ability, he gains 40 Armor
for 2.5 seconds.

Developer Notes

One of the key gameplay elements of Blackthorne is hiding in the background of the level and waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike. This trait is meant to model that.
While Blackthorne gains significant benefits to hiding against a wall, he is still punishable by DOTs, %damage, and AOE in general due to his low health. However, it is important to note that damage DOES NOT break stealth.
This makes him very strong when there is lots of terrain near objectives to hide around and set up ambushes, on maps such as cursed hallow or warhead junction, but much weaker on maps where the objective moves or is in the open, such as hanamura or volskya foundry.


Fire Bomb
Q (14 Second Cooldown)

Blackthorne cocks a grenade and channels for 1.5 seconds. During this channel, he may activate the ability again to throw the grenade which will explode in a medium radius after 3 seconds, dealing 256 (+4% per level) to all enemies.

Every 0.25 seconds spent channeling reduces the fuse time of the grenade by 0.5 seconds. If the channel completes, it instead explodes in Blackthorne’s hand dealing 342 (+4% per level) to all enemies in a small radius and 171 (+4% per level) to himself.

Blackthorne can channel this ability without breaking stealth.

Developer Notes

The grenade travels further the less it is cooked, traveling 10 units with the no cook, about 5 with half cook, and down to a minimum of 1 unit with maximum cook before self-detonation. The caster CAN see how far his grenade will be thrown. The radius of the thrown grenade is 3.5 units, while the radius of self-detonation is 2.5 units.
A complicated spell that explodes in an area based on how long it is channeled for. It requires good skill to be able to blow it up properly, as well as requiring a good sense of enemy movement.
While the self-harming explosion is meant to punish bad Blackthorne players, it can also be used to deal high damage to enemies who get too close to Blackthorne. This self-damage IS affected by his trait’s armor.
Blackthorne can prime this ability in stealth which gives him ample time to aim it where he wants, but if he isn’t careful, blowing himself up will break his stealth.


Reckless Barrage
W (13 sec Cooldown):

Recklessly overload the magazine of Blackthorne’s shotgun. The next time he basic attacks, Blackthorne instantly basic attacks again. Additionally, both of these attacks spray a narrow cone of shrapnel towards the target, dealing 90 (+4% per level) damage to all enemies caught in the fire.

Passive: Blackthorne’s basic attacks deal up to 40% additional damage based on proximity to the target.

Developer Notes

This works very similarly to Artanis’ twin blades. You ready the skill, fire two instant shots, dealing basic attack damage and additional damage in a cone centered on the target, and the cooldown starts.
The passive means that while you do ~90 damage at max range (4 units), you deal ~130 damage per shot at melee distance (similar to most shotguns in games, high damage at melee and decent at range.)
This is meant as a panic button of extra burst of sorts, to either kill a target or to retreat while retaliating.


Combat Roll
E (7 sec Cooldown):

Quickly roll in a direction.

The first basic attack after rolling lowers the cooldown of this ability by 2 seconds.

Developer Notes

This is a very basic mobility tool that helps Blackthorne escape and chase targets. It travels around 4 units at about double normal movement speed.
This ability is intentionally very simple baseline. It can gain a large amount of effects through talents. and is less complicated than the other abilities.
While this ability is good at escaping trouble, it is much better at pressing the advantage.


Lightstone
R1 (0.5 sec cooldown):

Channel the power of the Lightstone over 0.5 seconds, restoring 40% of Blackthorne’s Health, resetting his basic abilities’ cooldowns, and granting him 20% movement speed for the next 5 seconds. Once this is cast, the Lightstone goes dormant, and this ability cannot be used again.

Passive: Eliminating an enemy hero restores the Lightstone’s power, allowing for another use.

Developer Notes

This heroic gives Blackthorne a powerful heal and strong momentum in teamfights. Earning a takedown can swing the teamfight in Blackthorne’s favor. However, if he is unable to get kills, he will not get mileage out of this heroic.
Interrupting this heroic mid channel puts it on a 10 second cooldown, like interrupting other channeled spells.
While this is technically a large heal, keep in mind that Blackthorne has low health in general. Realistically, the most this will heal is ~1000 HP at a time, and only if Blackthorne is already winning a teamfight. This may seem winmore, but it helps with reverse sweeps as well.


Remote Wasp
R2 (80 sec CD):
Summon a wasp-shaped drone anywhere you have vision. It has 5 hitpoints and follows your commands. It can be directed to scout an area. After 5 seconds, the wasp can be directed to blow up on an enemy, dealing 413 (+4% per level) damage to all enemies in a large radius and stunning them for 1 second.

The wasp stays stealthed whenever it holds still for 5 seconds.

Direct Wasp
R2 (0.5 sec CD):

Direct your wasp to move to an area. After 5 seconds, the wasp arms, and if targeted on an enemy near the wasp, the wasp explodes, dealing 413 (+4% per level) damage to all enemies in a large radius and stunning them for 1 second.

If the wasp is killed, it does not blow up.

Developer Notes

This is by no means a more conventional Heroic move than Lightstone. It acts similarly to Lunara’s wisp and reveals an area around it similarly.
More of a “wombo-combo” type ult, a well placed wasp that’s hidden in a good place in advance of a teamfight can be a stunning initiation on the enemy team.
Wasp is prone to being destroyed if the Blackthorne player is moving it around too often however, which is why predicting the enemy is key to using this Heroic successfully. An average Blackthorne might use it to trap an objective or a mercenary camp, but a good Blackthorne will know how to secure kills with it, and be able to win teamfights with it.


Talents:

Tier 1:

Summary

This talent tier has a few definitive build defining talents, and focuses primarily on increases damage dealt.

  • Headhunter is a quest that vastly improves Blackthorne’s attack damage. Between increasing the passive damage increase in melee, to adding in a cleave effect, this quest slowly transforms Blackthorne from a Roamer who struggles in teamfights to a powerful, high damage autoattack carry.
  • Grevious Flames increases Blackthorne’s AOE damage to insane levels–after taking this ability, Fire Bomb can combo into 500 damage very quickly in a decent area, deals more damage than Flamestrike–albeit on a longer coodlown than other AOE abilities. The Quest component of this ability encourages frequent bomb tossing and rewards Blackthorne with vague anti-healer capability, which indirectly increases both sustain damage and burst damage.
  • Skulker increases Blackthorne’s ambush and burst potential, and while the damage output overall is lower than similar talents on this tier, it heavily increases burst damage and Blackthorne can pick off characters much more quickly. Additionally, the active component of this talent allows Blackthorne to reposition while stealthed, a critical ability to avoid taking damage and to suprise enemies.

• Headhunter:

(!) Quest: Every unique enemy hero Blackthorne kills increases Attack Damage by 5.

(!) Reward: Upon reaching 15 bonus Attack Damage, increase Reckless Barrage’s passive from 40% to 60%.

(!) Reward: Upon reaching 25 bonus Attack Damage, his basic attacks cleave for 50% damage in a small radius.


• Grevious Flames:

Fire Bomb gains an additional charge.

(!) Quest: Hit 20 enemy heroes with Fire Bomb.

(!) Reward: Targets hit by Fire Bomb (incuding yourself) receive 33% less healing for the next 4 seconds.


• Stealth Attack:

Blackthorne’s first basic attack out of stealth deals +50% damage.

D: Lurk gains an active use, allowing him to clamber over terrain while stealthed.

D: Climb (5 second cooldown): Climb over a piece of shallow terrain. You remain stealthed while doing so.

Tier 2:

Summary

This talent tier is dedicated to empowering E: Combat Roll in a variety of ways.

  • Vicious Momentum allows Blackthorne to toss out many more abilities in a teamfight than he would normally, at the risk of needing to deal sustained basic attacks.
  • Force of Nature! requires a significantly more agressive playstyle to benefit fully from than the rest of the talents on this tier. It’s knockback as well as CDR requires Blackthorne to use Roll and Reckless Barrage in a more agressive manner than before he takes this talent.
  • Adrenaline is both the most defensive option, as well as likely the best option for an ADC build. The armor and the increase in incoming healing make him way more tanky, allowing him (if able to lay out constant attacks) to survive longer and thus put out more sustain damage.
  • Combat Superiority increases Blackthorne’s passive survivability, making Blackthorne an unrivaled duelist.

• Vicious Momentum:

Basic Attacks lower the cooldown of Combat Roll by 0.5 seconds and Combat Roll lowers the cooldown of Fire Bomb and Reckless Barrage by 2 seconds.


• Adrenaline

Gain access to the Adrenal Implant ability.

Adrenal Implant
Number key [1]
Cooldown: 90 seconds

For the next 6 seconds, you receive 50% increased healing and 35 Spell Armor.

This skill automatically activates if Blackthorne falls below 30% health.

The cooldown of this ability is lowered by 5 seconds every time Blackthorne Combat Rolls.


• Force of Nature!:

Blackthorne’s first basic attack out of Combat Roll, as well basic attacks empowered by Reckless Barrage deal 20% more damage, knock the target back by a small amount, and Slow the target by 20% for 3 seconds.


• Combat Superiority:

Gain 50 Armor against Minions and Mercenaries.

(!) Quest: Each time you Combat Roll, increase your maximum health by 10, up to 300. This quest progress is reset on death.

(!) Reward: After increasing your health by 300, Combat Roll now restores 200 health on use, gain 10% Attack Speed, and friendly non-boss Mercenaries near you deal 50% more damage. Your bonuses are no longer lost on death.

Tier 3:

Summary

This talent tier is mostly about buffing Blackthorne’s chasing ability.

  • Fragmentation Grenade buffs the AOE of Fire Bomb, as well as increasing the play-making potential of blowing up a grenade on yourself. It does increase the risk for poor Blackthorne players, who would take heavy damage from the increased self-damage.
  • “BONK!” is a short range activate ability that heavily peels for Blackthorne as well as dealing high damage. This works well in tandem with Combat Roll to shove foes into your team or to quickly get away from a losing fight.
  • Careful Barrage radically changes the playstyle of Blackthorne, improving his burst potential dramatically at the cost of chasing potential. This burst requires Blackthorne even more set up than before.

• Fragmentation Grenade:

Fire Bomb now shoots out miniature explosives in a large area around the thrown explosion, dealing 130 (+4% per level) damage to all enemies hit. This damage does NOT stack with the actual explosion.

This extra explosion does not apply to self-exploded grenades, instead grenades that blow up in your hands deal 50% more damage to both enemies and yourself, and has a 50% larger radius.


• BONK!:

Gain access to the BONK! ability.

Number key [1]
Cooldown: 50 seconds

Whack a target with the butt of your shotgun, instantly dealing 141 (+4% per level) damage to a target enemy, slowing them by 70% decaying over 2 seconds, and knocking the target back a large distance.

BONK!'s cooldown is lowered by 5 seconds every time you use Combat Roll.


• Deliberation:

Replace Reckless Barrage with Careful Barrage. All talents that affect Reckless Barrage affect Careful Barrage.

Careful Barrage
(13 sec Cooldown):

Carefully overload the magazine of Blackthorne’s shotgun, channeling for up to three seconds. For each second Blackthorne channels this ability, he gains a charge of Barrage.

The next time he basic attacks, Blackthorne consumes all charges of Barrage and instantly basic attacks again for each charge consumed. Each of these additional attacks spray a narrow cone of shrapnel towards the target, dealing 90 (+4% per level) damage to all enemies caught in the fire.

This ability can only be used while Stealthed.

Passive: Blackthorne’s basic attacks deal up to 40% additional damage based on proximity to the target.

Tier 4

• Lightstone

• Remote Wasp

Tier 5

Summary

This talent tier is all about explosives–primarily Fire Bomb.

  • Flashbang gives you a modicum of defense against Basic Attack heroes. Additionally, the reveal on both Fire Bomb and Flashbang helps you chase vulnerable foes fleeing from a teamfight.
  • Hover Bomb gives you more power when setting up kills with prediction and prior set up time. It also buffs Fire Bomb’s AOE potential.
  • Pyromania! gives Blackthorne more mobility in general, which is never a bad thing.

• Flashbang:

Gain access to the Flashbang ability.

Number key [1-2]
Cooldown: 50 seconds

Throw a grenade at an area that explodes after 0.5 seconds, dealing 21 (+4% per level) damage in a small radius, blinding heroes hit and reducing their vision by 50% for 3 seconds.

Passive: Hitting an enemy hero with Fire Bomb or Flashbang reveals them for 5 seconds.


• Hover Bomb:

Gain Access to the Hover Bomb ability.

Number key [1-3]
Cooldown: 30 seconds

Set up a Hovering Bomb that can be manually detonated after 1.5 seconds. Reactivate this ability to blow up the Hover Bomb, dealing 300 (+4% per level) damage and dealing heavy knockback to all enemies hit.

Passive: Fire Bomb has a 20% larger radius.


• Pyromania:

You may now move while channeling Fire Bomb, and you move 30% faster while doing so. Additionally, Fire Bomb charges up twice as fast, traveling the same distance.

Tier 6:

Summary

This talent tier buffs the multiple playstyles of a Blackthorne player in utility based ways.

  • Vanish helps a struggling Blackthorne to survive while stealthed, which can be critical against AOE Mages or revealing heroes who’d love to abuse Blackthorne’s immobility in stealth.
  • Intense Athleticism heavily increases Blackthorne’s mobility, as well as slightly increasing overall damage output in optimal scenarios.
  • Blazing Soul is a heavy risk-reward talent that requires precision with Fire Bombs as well as good health management to get use out of it. However, if the risk is taken, the reward is insane mobility and attack-speed for a short while. Decent synergy with Adrenal Implant.

• Vanish:

When Blackthorne rolls into a piece of terrain, he instantly Stealths. Lurk’s Armor Bonus applies while stealthed.

Additionally, your first basic attack out of stealth reduces the target’s Armor by 25 for 3 seconds.


• Intense Athleticism:

Combat Roll gains an additional charge, and each time you use Combat Roll, you gain 10% movement speed for 5 seconds, stacking up to 3 times (and refreshing the duration). Combat roll also resets your basic attack timer.

However, the cooldown of each charge of Combat Roll is increased by 2 seconds.


• Blazing Soul

If you are caught in the explosion of your thrown Fire Bomb, you take 128 (+4% per level) damage, but gain 50% movement speed for 2 seconds and 50% attack speed for 2 seconds.

You gain these bonuses for 4 seconds if you explode Fire Bomb in your hands.


Tier 7

Summary
  • Darkstone increases Blackthorne’s playmaking ability dramatically, making him heavily support his team whenever he gets a takedown, as well as giving him some much needed self-sustain.
  • Twin Wasps doubles the playmaking capability of Remote Wasp, but decreases it’s usability immediately in a teamfight, forcing Blackthorne to make bigger-brain plays.
  • Vortex Bomb gives Fire Bomb an unparreled amount of field control as well as a unique teleport.
  • Electrified Tripwire is the ultimate ability to keep an enemy team corraled in an area. Setting one up to both allow your team to retreat from an otherwise unwinnable fight, or to secure kills on targets that would get away.

• The Darkstone of Ka’dra’suul:

While Lightstone is uncharged, your basic attacks heal for 30% of the damage dealt.

When Lightstone recharges via a takedown, Blackthorne gains Unstoppable for 1.5 seconds.


• Miniature Wasps

Casting Remote Wasp summons a second wasp which is directed and exploded separately from the first.

However, both Wasps are weaker on account of this. They deal 20% less damage, and only stun for 0.75 seconds, as well as exploding in a smaller radius.

The cooldown on Remote Wasp doesn’t start until BOTH wasps are blown up, and the cooldown is decreased by 20 seconds.

Direct Second Wasp
Number Key [1-4] (0.5 sec CD):

Direct your wasp to move to an area. After 5 seconds, the wasp arms, and if targeted on an enemy near the wasp, the wasp explodes, dealing 331 (+4% per level) damage to all enemies in a large radius and stunning them for 0.75 seconds


• Vortex Bomb

Your Fire Bomb teleports you to where it blows up.

Can be toggled to allow this talent from triggering.

Passive: Fire Bomb now slows targets hit by 50% decaying over 4 seconds, and upon exploding, knock all targets hit to the middle of the explosion. Fire Bomb has a 3 second lower cooldown.


• Master Trapper

Gain Access to the Electrified Tripwire ability.

Number key [1-5]
Cooldown: 30 seconds

Set up a tripwire in an area that lasts up to 15 seconds and activates after 1.5 seconds. Foes that walk across the tripwire are stunned for 0.25 seconds, silenced for 1.5 seconds, slowed by 50% for 3 seconds, and take 20 (+4% per level) damage. Reactivate this ability to take down the Tripwire prematurely.

Any opponent can only be effected by this tripwire once every 1 second.

Passive: You deal 40% increased damage to stunned or silenced foes, and 20% increased damage to slowed foes. These bonuses do not stack.




SKINS:

Summary

Default Skin: Kyle Vlaros has his standard outfit on, Jeans, Combat Boots, Sawed-off Shotgun, and Denim Jacket with most of the chest exposed and ripped sleeves, showing Blackthorne’s musclature. He has black hair and a scarred face.
[Army Blackthorne] (Jeans and denim are now army camo, and wears a white t-shirt under the tattered vest. Hair is dark brown, and more scars on Blackthorne.)
[Desert Blackthorne] (Jeans and denim are now khakis and camels. Hair is dusty blond, and outfit is covered in dust).


Hitman (Rare): Blackthorne is now in a suit and tie, his shotgun is much more manufactured and well polished, and his hair is groomed. He has sunglasses on. Lightstone transforms into a disco ball while channeling.
[Weddingman] (white suit)
[Discoman] (rainbow 80’s/90’s style suit, glasses are slitted party shades, and Lightstone’s discoball is now rainbow colors.)


Dragonlord Blackthorne (Epic): Most of Blackthorne is wearing generic leather fantasy gear, and Blackthorne’s chest, arms, and neck is covered in red dragon-scales. His head has a pair of massive horns, and his eyes glow ominously red. His Shotgun transforms into a fantasy blunderbuss, a large wooden stock with a dragon’s head as the barrel. Voiceover is deeper and the visuals for most of his abilities become more… firey. Lightstone becomes a roaring Dragon Head, and Remote Wasp is a dragon whelp. This skin can use dragon wings as a mount.
[Frostburn Dragonlord Blackthorne] (Scales become brightblue, and blackthorne’s flesh and leather armor appears frozen. Firey visuals turn blue.)
[Shadowfire Dragonlord Blackthorne] (Scales are purple, flesh is darker in tone and appears cast under shadow. Firey visuals turn purple.)


Aspect of the Nexus: Blackthorne’s entire body turns into triangular prisms in red and blue (depending on his team), his voice is replaced with an echoey multi-layered voice, and his visuals look similar to Qhira’s and the Dark Nexus visuals in blue and red (depending on his team). His shotgun is replaces with an extra large arm that directly shoots projectiles (including the Fire Bomb), Lightstone is a Nexus Singularity, and remote wasp is a Nexus Shard. This skin can float as a mount.
[Dark Aspect of the Nexus]: (Like above, but colors are replaces with dark red, purple, and blue all at once, similar to the Dark Nexus skins. Anything that was white in the original skin is now black.)
[Dazzling Aspect of the Nexus]: (Like the above skin, but the shards comprising his body are all bright white and refract rainbowy light all around Blackthorne. Visuals that are dark in color are now light.)

Other Misc:
His taunt is him pointing forward and then doing a “Come at me!” taunt where he’s facing.
His dance is The Running Man (popularized by MC Hammerpants)

10 Likes

I was surprised how great this was for nearly being at the timer.

2 Likes

Thanks Cammykins! I was finishing up a term paper, hence almost missing CDC entirely. Most of this kit I actually brainstormed up today, asides from the trait and the second ability (credit to Damian, who let me use some of his old Blackthorne concept to inspire me)

Any glaring balance issues or consistancy/typos I missed?

1 Like

I was thinking that though it’s intended, Blackthorne’s health should prob be higher towards at least 1200. A lot of the lower health assassins have ways to compensate, like Fenix having shields or Probius being quick ,so he should either have his health higher and/or have maybe some type of armor to compensate for low health.
Or Perhaps what if the Basic Attack cone to all enemies in range and possibly turn down the damage, but boost the range-based damage by up to 60-80%?

His trait gives him 50 armor if he positions right. That’s like, the whole challenge of the character.

1 Like

Apologies for not being able to get this before deadline as you sent that message on Discord while I was getting ready for bed

That said I took a gander and so far I don’t see any real issues, atl east nothing that should be a week 1 issue (I can see the Lightstone in particular needing some fine tuning in paticular)and while Combat Roll is a bit lackluster compared to the rest othe kit I can’t fault you

Only advice I can offer is to maybe see if you can squeeze a few talents to add fun new effects to Combat Roll preferably on the 44 and 7, not sure what exactly but something.

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I’m glad you noticed that it was plain, cause that was my purpose XD All of the level 4 talents effect combat roll, and there are other talents that buff it scattered through my supposed talent list so far.

Yeah, this is one of the moves I’m the most iffy about in general. I’ve never played Blackthorne, so I don’t know what roll it takes in the game, so I sorta assumed light = healing, combined with Kyle’s natural ferocity as a sorta of might-make-right tool to conquer with. This heroic is subject to redesign.

It’s no problem IMO :slight_smile:

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wow, spoilers. quit hacking my pc

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None.
I´ve played Blackthorne a couple times, and I’m almost sure the Lightstone takes no place in gameplay :stuck_out_tongue:

I think lorewise, it might be used to teleport into the first level, and maybe between stages?

Unless there’s something I’m missing.
Like I said, I’ve played it a couple times, however I’ve never really stopped to read the lore in the manual and the like.

1 Like

18/20

You worry to much :stuck_out_tongue:

Creativity: 4/5
I actualy quite like this one. Combat roll is pretty fairly basic but I like its implications with the rest of his kit. Its really close to being a 5/5. Id add an entire pre 10 talent tier deticated to spiceing up combat roll if you wanna bump it up a point. also lightstone is cool

Cohesiveness: 5/5
No anti-synergies and almost everything fits the playstyle you were going for. Stealthing in to a bush, tossing a fire bomb and then dashing in with a shotgun sounds like fun. I diddnt think it was enough to lose points but being able to re-lurk mid fight would be nice (talent maybe?)
Im not so sure about very hard and Complex tho.

Thematic: 5/5
Feels very slow and methodical which is exactly what the game was like. Some talents that further slow him down for more power would be neat

Interaction: 4/5
Just some nitpicks. I dont like the channel time on lightstone. The ult wants me to go go go after a takedown but im stuck here channeling a thing. The heal feels twice as strong as it should be even when considering its cooldown mechanic. Remote wasp having no delays can effectivly make it in to an on demand instant aoe stun. I feel like remote wasp should be more like a trap that you can slowly move but im not quite getting that vibe from it. Some delays would probably fix that tho. Combat roll may be a bit to spammy.
I like that Blackthorne is very squishy. The low health and how his armor works promotes a more methodical playstyle. However, I think 1050 is a bit to low, one of the vikings has more health then blackthorne does. If you plan on ambushing a mage, its entirely possible that they can react and then burst you down before blackthorne bursts them down when it feels like it should be the other way around.

some other stuff. you forgot to say that W was his W. W is the kind of ability that would reset your auto attack timer for 3 very quick AAs. not sure if thats what you wanted or not but id clarify (personaly I like AA resets).

1 Like

Hey Waterlong, I fixed up some stuff (particularly about the heroics, though I did tune combat roll) (and posted some VERY unfinished talents)

EDIT: Oh dear. It appears the formatting got messed up because of Google Docs. I’ll be fixing this at somepoint soon, as well as finishing up the talents

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I to, am a “FoN” of teamfortress 2

1 Like

Talents all done! Just in time too!

What is mean of it?
I do my best and I hope to gain victory.
In past I had so sickness and Curse in my life and they cause my health so bad,I lost my Control so much and do fight with people some time in now and i want to be good from now until future.
I dont know English some especial it’s sense and feel I saw you as Demon that want to distrube me,I have many problems and issue in my life especial server iliusion and can not have imagine well and decide true some time.
during this game cause of my sickness I have many error in mathces and always people said me abusive It was a second issue for me and then I shall defend myself and start abusive too,and It cause me silence and then I decide to leave speak and chat with people,but in recent days you start another discussion and I make sick again and yield fight one more…
This is only 1% of my problems in life and in practise is nothing.
But you must control yourself and dont distrube people with disussion…
But know it you face with cursed and sick man not natural people,releas it and forgot it…

I still dont know it,are you boy or girl?

1 Like

It’s not the issue of what you say being bad, but how it might sound, coming out of context or iliterate to a degree.

3 Likes

I dont speak Iliterate at all,maybe it cause of some problems like as I am a foreigner or my english is low or maybe my translator get mistake some time,anyway I have sickness in my life,and probable they cause such things.

Maybe people can not understand me well,but I dont do useless,I have imagine and ideology and know my job well.
I think my idea and imagine are some strange and new or maybe understanding for people,but no problem,just know it that I work on new and especific builds and Method and parameter…I work as a Theoretician not as a Engineer (as example) and maybe most of people find my idea in long time away.

3 Likes

Total Score - 18/20

Creativity - 5/5
Starting off, there’s a lot about this base kit that I really like and is very creative. Blackthorne’s base stats combined with Lurk already establish him as a very slippery and durable hero, but only while sneaking; once caught out, he’s fragile and doomed. So far, this is a very unique identity for the game, and it’s appreciated. Fire Bomb is a fairly interesting implementation of a grenade ability, with the option to cook it adding plenty of depth. Reckless Barrage is more simple, but its active gives Blackthorne basic attack-focused burst as an identity and his passive gives him a typical shotgun effect, making him a better close-range ambusher. Combat Roll is of course very simple, but similar to Tychus’s Run and Gun, a simple mobility skill can work well for a hero that has other well-defined mechanics going for them. Lightstone is a more powerful version of Li Ming’s passive, but I appreciate that the channel time makes it more strategic and unique in comparison. Remote Wasp is also fairly interesting, as a vision tool with big but hard-to-use burst, and some counterplay potential.

Talents range from solid to great, with a few unfortunate ones in there. Starting with the worst, I’m automatically against Seasoned Veteran as a generic talent; the splash damage reward makes it a little more interesting but going for a rather out-of-date generic talent that encourages bland minion-farming for consistent progress. Otherwise, there are a couple of pretty straightforward/generic talents around the tree that offer unconditional buffs to abilities that make them better at what they already do: Napalm, Vanish, Shredder, and maybe Pyromaniac/No Mercy do this. These aren’t too bad, though, since they’re relatively few in number (though Buckshot/Pyromaniac removing a base kit limitation that influences Blackthorne’s playstyle bugs me a bit). As for the rest, I’d say the talents are pretty good. The Tier 2 talents are generally good, adding new mechanics/synergies to Combat Roll and sometimes the rest of Blackthorne’s kit; Stealth Attack’s active is a neat effect; and Blaze It! adds interesting mobility to Fire Bomb. All unmentioned talents are generally solid; I don’t think they’re great enough or bad enough for a callout and they fill the tree decently.

To conclude, I don’t have any significant complaints with Creativity. The base kit is pretty solid all the way through, and while Seasoned Veteran and the talents that invalidate restrictions/penalties in Blackthorne’s base kit irk me, they’re few enough that they don’t constitute a problem.

Cohesiveness - 5/5
With the base kit, cohesion is pretty solid overall. Again, Blackthorne’s base stats plus Lurk make him a fragile ambush hero, and Fire Bomb plus Reckless Barrage both push him in a burst direction that just works for a hero that wants to close fights fast. Combat Roll works both as an escape and a chase, with the CDR on basic attack encouraging Blackthorne to use it to chase the enemy he’s bursted. Lightstone and Remote Wasp both take this style and give Blackthorne more potential to teamfight, whether through more gas or a better engage.

On to talents, they’re also very strong overall. I looked through the tree multiple times with different builds in mind (basic attack burst, sustained basic attack, Stealth burst, Fire Bomb burst) and the builds are dynamic with some tiers having multiple options, and occasionally no option on a tier that forces you to diversify a bit; both of these together help to prevent builds from feeling railroaded. The worst offender was probably Stealth burst, since there’s no reason to not stack the Stealth burst talent on every tier, but again, that has plenty of dead tiers that force build variance. One problem I do see is that Hover Bomb builds on Flashbang, so it feels much worse to take if you didn’t take Flashbang; this is incredibly minor though and an easy fix.

In conclusion, base kit playstyle is solid and cohesive, and multiple talent builds exist while being very fluid and dynamic instead of railroaded. I have a hard time coming up with any complaints or penalties, so full points.

Thematic - 5/5
As far as I know, all seems in place for Blackthorne here. Explosives, a shotgun, and Stealth gameplay that balances caution with aggression. As for the contest theme, Blackthorne easily qualifies as a Classic character, so full points there.

Interaction - 3/5
As creative and cohesive as Blackthorne is, I think he has a few interactivity problems. First, even though Remote Wasp is hard to use, it’s an absolutely massive effect, and with the Tier 7 talent a double Remote Wasp can just insta-win a fight on its own like no other ability in the game. Second, Blackthorne’s damage options actually start to feel really overloaded in his talent tree. As I mentioned in Cohesiveness, he’s got lots of fluid and dynamic builds… but all of those builds are pretty full-on murder with little to no utility or survivability. Even explosive murder mages like Kael’thas take tiers off from raw damage to add different utilities or other strengths to the hero. I think that this falls under Interaction because it represents an inherent design flaw that makes the hero overwhelming/polarizing to deal with. Lastly, there’s a couple of extra egregious talents from an Interaction standpoint: Twin Wasps, as mentioned, kicks Remote Wasp into overdrive as a solo game winning ult; Vanish can make Blackthorne the most obscenely obnoxious and slippery Stealth hero in the game; and Fury of the Nexus, with all of the other basic attack options, will make a hyper-stacked Zul’jin feel inadequate with how much damage Blackthorne will spew from basic attacks.

All in all, I think that Blackthorne has too many things that push him over the tipping point to be frustrating to contend with, and that knocks Interaction down a few points.

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Massively updated talent tree, as well as adding skins and making a few other tweaks. Hopefully this is slightly better (sorry for being so late!!)

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Honey, when can I see your gold medal and first place in this CDC? what is date exact? ^^

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bruh I ain’t gonna get 1st, that’s either gonna be Sarlac or Ulreazj (That’s Efede’s and WhoYouExpect’s HCs respectively)

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