Petition to turn Furnace Blast into “HYYYYAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH” which immediately silences and slows nearby enemy heroes for a few seconds. Duration is tripled vs players who think Butcher is OP.
Level 20 upgrade causes the cooldown of HYYYYAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH to be reduced by 5 seconds every time an enemy hero hits Butcher with any form of crowd control. Blinding the Butcher reduces the cooldown by 10 seconds instead.
Have you even read his description?
Um, every butcher that have at least some skill doesnt just kill heroes, he farms minions for meat.
Yes, because thats why Butcher is so useless without meat, but too strong with 200+ stacks.
No, it just needs increased duration to 6 and that you can insta explode it, and also increase its damage.
Generally speaking everyone is team dependent because it’s a team game and no one can really win alone.
I think it’s pretty bad for the team if Butcher just walks around behind his teammates and waits until they kill something. Like this butcher is basically useless and you need your team to carry you. That’s how it sounds to me when someone says Butcher is too team dependent.
My best experience with butcher is when i pick him as solo laner and prepare the meat myself. You constantly soak exp from one lane for your team (OMG you are useful for your team even early on) and get meat from those minions as well. That’s the main source of meat because in high level matches players will not constantly die as much as compared to Bronze players who all die like 10 times per match. Just look at how many deaths there are per team in an average professional match - sometimes teams win with only 5 kills… Butchers don’t like that 
Even as solo lane butcher you can get to additional meat from hero kills: You just need a teammate who will sometimes come to your lane for a gank - you can bait the enemy laner and charge-stun him when your ally is in range --> easy kill.
You can also leave the solo lane for a quick charge-stun gank and be back for your next minion wave to clear in your solo lane.
You don’t need to “win” your solo lane - it’s just your safe meat farm spot. Winning comes later…
Personally i really like it when some heroes can excel with good teamwork and hero synergy. I have a friend that is a good Medivh player and with him Butcher becomes pretty good because every time i charge in i get a portal to get out again. It’s pretty much removing one weakness of butcher. I solo lane as butcher when i play with him because my Medivh needs to complete his quest first so he needs to be free from exp soaking tasks, just focusing on spamming Q’s.
There are many good synergy combos in the game.
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again:
Butcher can be reworked to get additional HEALTH instead of damage after completing his quest. This way he will not have the potential to become broken beyond repair. He can also get some baseline damage buff, while the bonus damage from his meats is reduced.
Another interesting thing they can do with him would be to make him more like Dehaka, where each meat he collects can be consumed to give him some sort of temporary bonus.
we already have Diablo (gets more health by collecting souls…)
we already have Dehaka.
Having heroes that work in more unique ways is cool
What Butch needs is a kit that doesn’t make him feast or famine, or at least not this much, and makes him not scared just because he can lose meat.
I am not sure if this is really needed. How about we have one hero in the game that really represents that feast or famine, hardcore risk/reward theme? Why can’t Butcher be like that?
I personally like this a lot and stuff like this can change the teamwork to another level. Making heroes more viable could just make the game more boring.
Tassadar before his latest rework was one of my favorite heroes. He was a pretty unique hero in the Nexus with a special support role. Now he’s a mage, over all stronger hero but still not really that enjoyable for me anymore ^^
Alarak is the Feast or Famine.
(And to a lesser extend Zuljin and Kelthuzad).
But Butch supposed to be this scary boss that “summons the ghost out of you”, yet you play him as an immobile Tracer for a lot of lvls. Not fitting for the fantasy. Pretty sure he’ll gets rounded up a bit to be more widely available (draft-wise) and to be a full Hero from lvl 1.
I feel like you failed to understand what I meant. So let me explain it in more detail >.>
Butcher’s trait becomes:
Upon dying, nearby enemy minions drop 1 meat and enemy heroes drop 20 meat. Fresh Meat can be picked up to increase your b.a.d by 0,4 per meat. The Butcher loses 15 meat upon dying.
Quest: Collect 200 meat.
Reward: Gain additional 100 attack damage and 25% attack speed. Heroes continue to drop 10 meat, but minions no longer do. You no longer lose meat upon dying. And each additional meat stack over 200 grants you 3-4 (+4%) health rather than 0,4 damage.
The damage bonus has been nerfed to compensate for the baseline damage buffs he should get.
But as you can see, He will still be getting damage increase until he collects 200 meat. AFTER that he will start getting health instead, so he doesn’t just skyrocket into madness, like he does now. Having counterplay is a requirement, and currently there isn’t anything players can do when they just die before they even leave the stun caused by his charge. So having a more balanced damage will be better for the game. But he will keep getting stronger by getting kills, just so collecting meats would feel rewarding, by off-setting his weakness.
Unlike Diablo, the HP bonus will have no cap, and will be permanent.
The other option I mentioned was the “Dehaka style” trait:
Enemy heroes drop 1 Fresh Meat upon dying, which you can collect.
You can use “Fresh Meat” to consume up to 5 meat at a time. Each meat consumed grants you different bonuses:
1 meat = increases your attack damage by 20% for 5 seconds.
2 meat = increases your attack damage by 25% and grants you 15 armor for 5 seconds.
3 meat = increases your attack damage by 30%, grants you 20 armor and increases your move speed by 20% for 5 seconds.
4 meat = increases your attack damage by 35%, grants you 25 armor and increases your move speed by 25% for 5 seconds, and heals you by 20% of your max HP.
5 meat = increases your attack damage by 40%, grants you 30 armor, increases your move speed by 30% and your attack speed by 25% for 5 seconds, and heals you for 25% of your max HP.
So as you can see, this version is also really unique and a quite different from what Dehaka has. Although there are some “similarities”.
Of course it could just be simplified:
Increase your attack speed by 25% for 8 seconds each meat consumed also increases your attack damage by 10% and heals you for 10% of your max HP over the duration. Can consume up to 5 meat at a time.
Dehaka style butcher would literally be unplayable as he will literally have no dmg for cost of little survival + he would only got it by killing heroes which is broken as e.g. team with Abathur would decrease effectiveness of trait. I would simply change meat value and quest rewards and add more levels to it - 100 meat would be 40% of current bonus dmg. 200 meat would be 80% of current bonus dmg and attack speed boost. 300 meat be 100% of current bonus dmg, attack speed and reduce status times by 50% (or simply immunity to blind). Meat itself would be 0,75 dmg instead 0,5.
And that’s where the baseline stats buff come into play.
Totally agree. Whilst KTZ’s early game damage sucks, at least he contributes to team fights by bringing a fully loaded CC kit. Butcher’s early game kit brings very little to the team fight; very little damage, very little CC.
Well technically his survivability skyrockets as butcher’s brand’s life steal is linked to his damage. Another reason why butcher’s early game sucks. Maybe brand returns health based on butcher’s health bar?
I love the idea of a temporary buff for collecting meat. An example could be a level 20 talent: Collecting hero meat resets butcher’s basic abilities.
Kind of like liming…except butcher actually needs to collect the meat to get the reset instead of merely just being nearby.
butchy is what he is. don’t try to change him
Tass was what he was. And he got a radical change.
And compared to butcher, he had higher pickrate…
Furnace Blast is playable.
And if I were to rework him, maybe something like:
No damage increase from meat.
Minions drop 1 meat on death, killed heroes drop 25 meat.
Attacking a hero gives 2 meat, if they are slowed or Branded it gives 5 instead.
Meat is not lost on death, maximum of 50 meat.
Activate trait to consume 10 meat, increasing movement speed by 10%, and attack speed by 25% for 3 seconds and reducing cooldowns by 1 second.
Reactivating while the buff is up refreshes the duration, and stacks it up to 30% movement speed and 75% attack speed.
I love infinite stacking:pleading_face:
No, nothing wrong with butcher as it is. He is good just most people dont understand how to play him properly or counter him.
Whilst Lamb is the superior ult, I do still like blast furnace.
The important component to remember is that butcher actually needs to deal damage in order for lamb to be deadly…otherwise it’s a harmless 4 second root and silence.
If the enemy is great at shutting you down with stuns, blinds etc…furnace is great at bypassing all that by dealing uninteruptable spell damage.
Time it right and it has a better chance of securing kills compared to Lamb.
Blast’s level 20 option…now that’s a different story. Dramatically increase the radius of the second explosion to ring of frost size kaboom?
That’s somewhat true, but not quite. When there are multiple enemies, Butcher can sustain himself with brand only until his branded target dies. After that he can rely only on his remaining HP.
Furthermore, cc is a way to counter him and having higher max HP will help him withstand the cc chains for longer amounts of time, which may allow him to use brand and start healing himself up before he dies.
He needs my proposed rework