Your favourite fearsome demon Butcher rework

Hero and Skin Suggestions
1

I will suggest some changes down there, I tried to introduce Fear to his late game talents because fear was his first impression to all of us who played Diablo 1.

Level 1:
Invigoration: Added functionality: also increases ham string range by 25%

Cheap shot: moved from level 4 ( added functionality increase ham string damage to minions , mercenaries and monsters by 100%)

Chop meat: removed

Victuals: moved from level 7 : Adjusted functionality : heal for 1% of your max health per meat picked , ( which means you pick 1 meat off a minion you heal for 1% you pick 20 off a hero you heal for 20% )

Block: Removed

Level 4:
Flail Axe: Removed
Cheapshot: Moved to level 1.

Blood frenzy: moved from level 16

Insatiable blade: moved from level 7

Unrelenting pursuit: No change

Blood Lust: Butcher gains 5% permanent movement speed per 50 meat stack up to 20%.

Level 7:
Enraged : moved from level 16 , cooldown increased to 30 seconds

Demonic Hunger: Duration extension of Butcher’s brand per basic attack increased to 1 second. Basic attacks against branded hero decrease cooldown of Butcher’s brand by 1 second
Healing from brand increased by 25%.

Meat shield: no change

Level 10: no change
Level 13:
Cleaver : removed.
Savage charge: moved to 16
Brutal strikes: Removed
Demonic resolve: Butcher gains 75 physical armor for 4 seconds if his health dropped to 30%, 16 seconds cooldown. Butcher gains demonic resolve on takedowns for free.

Relentless Demon: Activate D ( to reduce all CC effects againt butcher by 12.5% per 50 meat stack for 5 seconds ) 30 seconds cooldown.

Meat Eater: Butcher’s brand gains a second charge and its Mana cost reduced to 30.

Level 16:
Savage charge: moved from 13, damage of impact increased to 15% of target max health.

Crippling slam renamed to Executioner Slam: added functionality: if a hero is hit by Hamstring butcher next auto attack deals 40% extra damage.

Astonishing ambush: If the butcher stays in a bush for 3 seconds without fighting he gains stealth inside the bush , once stealthed his next auto attack Deal 100% more damage and fears the target for 1 second , the feared target gains 25% movement speed while feared. (Being surprised by the Butchers Cleaver give men wings :smiley: )

Level 20:
Slaughter house: no change

Fires of hell : removed:

Frightening flames: enemy heroes affected by furnace blast explosion are feared for 2 seconds.

Terrorizing charge: Enemies caught in Butcher’s path while charging are feared for 1 second, additionaly charged target is stunned for 1 extra second and on impact enemy heroes near the charged target are feared for 1 second.

Executioner Cleaver: Basic attacks deal 25% more damage to disabled targets, basic attacks slows targets by 10% for 2 seconds stacking up to 30%.

Nexus blades: removed

Bolt of the Storm: Removed ( sorry Butcher no more escapes for you :sweat_smile: )

The reason for this rework is to give him a grim fearsome theme and presence like he had in Diablo classic and to give him a strong position in this game because if you think abou it why would you pick him over Thrall , colossus Varian or even illidan ? , Further more why would you pick him over any bruiser like Sonya , twin blades Varian , imperius or Artanis ?
I don’t even see a reason to pick him over Alarak or Zeratul or Leoric…
It’s far easier and safer to get more auto attack value over all stages of the game with Thrall or colossus varian.
I loved the butcher for unknown reasons and I kept playing him since release until now Up to level 81 with 70% win rate But , there’s no character that makes me play like a chicken like him , he works only if you have great 4 man who can carry you early game or enemy is making useless mistakes , otherwise he is easily contained and can’t do anything.

2

I feel like Butcher is one of those gimmick heroes like Cho’Gall. You don’t really play him because it makes sense, you just play him for fun.

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3

He shouldn’t remain like this forever

4

Butcher is that “takes long to get sharp” scissor that cuts through rock… Not sure if that much bad though. ALL those other guys sure can dive the backline and do a pick but well-developed Butcher in the late game can literally fight-off tanks (or even outright kill them) tbh :wink:

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5

The biggest issue with Butcher is that he lacks real and effective ways to stick to his targets outside of Lambs to the Slaughter, he has a dangerous power curve that leads to definitive win or loss games, and all of his damage is based on close ranged basic attacks, gravely reducing his ability to push, poke, or box in lane. All of this, including the fact his sustain is tied to his main attribute (sharing all of its weaknesses and strengths, and being similarly polarizing), make Butcher a wild card that is nigh impossible to balance. Any straight numerical boosts will make him even more of a dominant force in Silver/low Gold games, while only minorly addressing his issues in higher levels of play.

I think the only want to fix Butcher would be to do away with his W and trait, slightly altering them to be more terrifying yet smooth power curves, give him some sustain to his trait or his Q, and giving him a W ability that can help him definitively stick to an enemy (as a skillshot) that can be used to poke or duel in lane with.

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6

No , I refuse reworks that changes a hero identity or drastically affect his play style

My proposed rework aims to give him choose early game talent choices that give him more utility or he can gamble and choose to invest even more in his trait.
Also giving him better survivability options and introducing fear through talents because that’s his main first impression.
This rework should smooth his power curve through out all stages of a match

7

How many reworks haven’t massively altered playstyles? The identity, however, is usually pretty stable, in terms of what the general setup of abilities is.

One thought would be having the level 1 Talent add another way to get Meat and another scaling value in addition to attack damage, allowing for a choice immediately that adds playstyles but doesn’t necessarily exclude the current situation.

An example of adding options would be generating Meat whenever you hit a Hero with an ability and increasing Spell damage, with some cooldown reduction at the halfway point, allowing for the Butcher to get Meat from incomplete ganks and making him work better in long, dense teamfights.

Another could be getting a little Meat with each on-Hero Auto-Attack, increasing maximum health with each stack and giving Armor at the halfway point to make for a much more durable Butcher that largely loses the vulnerability to burst damage and makes for a pretty clear melee counterpart for Zul’jin.

The existing minion-meat could be locked behind a Talent, or improved by one (in which case the other two expand an added baseline Meat supply), giving additional non-Hero damage by percentage (thus making Meat exponential for siege) and a sizable movement speed (15-25%) increase at 100 Meat.

These different level 1 Meat access Talents could then interact with acquiring Meat in general, making it so that the Butcher can potentially mix and match in a few different ways. The hardcore Bruiser setup that sticks to people and never lets go, a rather different beast from the current burst style, could have parts of it appropriated by that very same burst for escape functions, as the shared Talent can be gaining movement speed on Meat acquisition.

The big key is that the current Butcher is quite one-dimensional. Every Butcher build goes E-W-Q for a hard engage, they all suck at handling burst directed at them, you get the picture. Ensure the current core playstyle is preserved as one particular build, then work to introduce new playstyles with the rest of the Talents.

I’d love a fakeout Mage build that is hardly touched by Blinds because the actual damage output is based on abilities, like a Q talent that adds a percentage of attack damage to it.

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8

Many actually like Raynor , Valla , Zuljin , ETC , Muradin …

I gave him enough spell utility/damage in Q and E talents but he must remain basic attack oriented in his core , don’t forget furnace blast which is spell damage as well

9

Wrong forum. No, just because it’s a “suggestion about a hero” doesn’t mean it goes here. Balance goes in general.

To one of the people below:

I am correct, but you can report me if you think I’m not. All I know is I look through this forum for neat ideas of skins or new heroes, which is the point of it, and it’s really annoying to see people clogging it up with “reworks”. There’s a place for that, and it’s not here.

10

Butcher’s not a brawler, but an assassin. He should capitalize on his ability to laser-focus a pesky backline/healer and isolate heroes out of position, while being a monster at both pushing lanes & grabbing camps - and yet, should not be able to engage in sustained team fights.

Not having any real way to “stick to his targets outside of Lamb to the Slaughter” is a valid concern, but he’s already got a pretty nasty kit (sustain, strong engage/stun, unstoppable all on relatively short cooldowns) so it’s a fair trade-off. Blast Furnace could use a retouching on how it operates, or even be replaced by another ability altogether.

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11

A lot of assassins can brawl and trade well , it’s not a bruiser only job.

Think about it and suggest something

12

Dude, stop being the forum police. You’re not even technically correct, and nobody is listening to you anyways.

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14

In a lot of ways, similar to Xul, he is best utilized by setting up plays for his allies until late game when he’s just a runaway freight train. That point and click stun, or Lamb lets your allies know exactly where that enemy is going to be and allows for maximum capitalization. Characters like Jaina, Tyrande, Kel’Thuzad, Li-ming, and Kael’thas can all make that enemy have a VERY bad day. If his team is built around him, and he plays cautious and smart early game, he is extremely dangerous.

15

I think I made a very bad introduction to this rework , every one reply to justify or explain how can the butcher be good but not a single reply to the details of the rework itself :sweat_smile:

16

Because your initial question was “Why take him over Thrall, Varian or Illidan?” The answer is, even though his rework might have nerfed him in some ways, he’s still WAY more dangerous than any of those 3 characters late game. One good lvl 20 talented Lamb can easily win a game. You have to play cautious early game, that’s almost any character. Especially Illidan, you have to pick your fights carefully, and know when you engage or you will just get melted.

Playing careful is how you play Butcher correctly early game. But he works insanely well with teams that allow him to capitalize hard on mistakes and missteps. Especially with a tank like Garrosh on your team. In quick match it’s a crap shoot. But in in ranked you can set yourself up for a win very easily.

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17

I know every thing about the butcher but you are right , the problem to this thread is my initial question for which I wasn’t seeking an answer but wanted to just highlight why his character can’t be prioritized over any other in most situations and I guess no body bothered to continue reading :joy: , perhaps I should remove that long introduction or put it as a summary at the end

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