Yes, the forum clique… They share pretty much the same opinion on things… go around liking each others posts… gang up on those they disagree with… are generally more polite to each other than those outside the clique.
This forum reminds me of the bar you see in the movies where an out-of-towner comes in and the music stops and all the regulars sneer at the new guy… (heh, that part I say mostly in jest.)
LOL… ain’t that the truth.
In psychology, that’s called self sabotage and hindsight bias.
They purposely prevent themselves from winning and then go and say “it was a loss anyway”. At that point, players care more about being right than winning.
And then they proceed to complain on how the game is against them and that this game is trash because they can’t win. In reality, they’re just against themselves and can’t overcome it.
Some might tie hindsight bias to narcissism.
That’s why I conclude based on Blizz’s decision.
Because if I’d like to have standard conps (which you mistake with balanced), I would go to Draft modes.
But I like playing as or against weird comps, my experience is, that “balance” (the high winchance you’re searching) is in mentality and skill.
I just want to play the moment I hit ready and I can make us win.
They see if a change increases or decreases player numbers in seasons.
Rank-wise, yes. It means as much as me having fast queues in high mmr.
That’s because ppl don’t know how to play from behind, so usually the first team getting the lead will keep it and escalate it. You cannot make MM Rules to prevent that.
I like the idea of a Guild System. I like the idea of more strict rules in SL so ppl cannot play a Hero there at the first time. I wanna make the game more newplayer friendly.
And many other ideas I created or supported. You shouldn’t assume my post history without actually checking it.
Pretty sure the thread you’re mentioning is @KishMyAxe’s? In which he mentions a Guild System and I supported that there as well? (And pointed it out that I did in the same thread 3x times while everyone supporting his whole thread ignored it?)
I won’t search quotes, instead I list a few here doing what I said I’m doing:
I admit I’m in high mmr, which is a minority.
I admit I’m in a minority that wants every QM rule except mmr based ones to be removed.
The emphasis was on not knowing why they left. I dont doubt they know about number of players online, how that number trends over time etc.
So if we all have low queue times… and only about half of my games are good matchups… Wouldn’t it reasonable to conclude there is a little too much emphasis on speed and not enough on quality? At least I think so.
Fair enough. Point ceded. 
I thought it was mostly accepted concept that 30% of your games are impossible to win, 30% of your games are impossible to lose and only 40% of your games ‘how you play’ actually matters (I think 40% is generous). The root cause of 60% of games having a pre-destin outcome is inefficiencies in the MMR. Simply, 1 of the teams was dealt a bad hand. I want to make that percentage smaller. Even if that means I go from a 90 second wait… to a 3-5 minute wait.
Im actually going from personal experience as well. I used to make suggestion threads about changes I thought would improve this game. You never seemed to like the ideas and we had some extensive back-and-forths on them (I enjoyed the back-and-forths if you couldn’t tell )
There isn’t one. Some of the people on the forums are friends IRL or online friends and even they will disagree on many issues. I’ll let you in on a secret too, some of the so called “forum clique” have fallen out as friends with each other and some just don’t really like another poster for one reason or another.
As we are a very small community and most of us are adults, we can navigate these issues, disagree, discuss, but remain civil. This doesn’t equal the forum being a hive mind or a love feast. I’ve never even socialized with any of the people on this forum, but I respect many of them. I remain pretty much impartial considering I have no personal ties to them socially.
That is much more like the Hots subreddit which FYI, is much more influential in regards to what Devs read and listen to when making changes. Instead of taking unfounded stabs in the dark at people posting in good faith here, perhaps you should try your luck over at Reddit where at the very least, your ideas are more likely to be heard?
Nobody is doing that to you. You haven’t made a post complaining about “forced 50%” or wanting a surrender option of some silly thing. Just because we haven’t agreed with everything you’ve said, doesn’t mean you’re not welcome. That fact that people are taking the time to discuss matters with you should make you realize that you’re welcomed here.
Some of the 10k posters are low ELO players with a very specific view on the game which doesn’t necessarily cover the reality of HOTS or Blizzard in 2022.
Just ignore them and find the people with which it’s worth to discuss things. You will find them.
I guess that depends on what side of the clique you are on. No one who has ever been part of a clique thought they were in a clique.
Im using personal experience. Not trying to open can or worms here… but here are 2 examples of me making a suggestion to improve the game… but they were like trying to push a boulder up a mountain.
And I am nowhere near crazy enough to try and post a thread about balance suggestions on this forum. There’s only 1 way that conversation goes…
Not that I want you to write me off completely (or create a tangent), but those things aren’t crazy and neither are the people who post them.
Forced 50%: Blizz actually confirmed this was “both true and not true”… so not exactly a conspiracy theory.
Surrender button: It exists in other similar games that are thriving… how is this possible?
Thank you for that. (I’m being sincere)
Prob in the minority, but I don’t believe much in the impossible nor in the guaranteed. Also heard ppl claiming certain accs have 80%+ winrates, which already disproves this theory.
And I know for certain I saw ppl with 25% wr, which means they lost more they “could”?
Ppl can win as much as 100%, the more realistic is 50% with ±20% variety, but even the 99 or 10% is doable. Ppl just need to try.
Based on the threads you posted:
I’m highly against the idea of hiding information.
I’m also against the idea that ppl should lose something that can be used for good because ppl can use it for bad. One of the reasons is because ppl need no tools to do bad, so you won’t stop them by taking their tools away, they can be mean without those.
From high mmr experience, and from many screenshots, replays and match stories I saw and heard, I know that stats are not good enough metrics to show who do how well. It’s a failed idea, because this is a teamgame, where certain Heroes do certain stats better, different roles have different jobs, and everything is a team effort. Do you dealt much dmg as an Assassin solely because you are good 100% sure, or the Tank/Healer who enabled you and created golden opportunites can take credit?
Also this idea was tested by Blizz and didn’t work.
Plus if someone is truly good, they can win often, so the current system also favours them.
But these has nothing to do with you. Nothing personal. So sorry if you felt threatened, or unwelcomed here, you are not. Keep trying to make the game better, but try to be open about criticism.
Ha! No offense taken and I never felt attacked. Like I said, I enjoyed going back and forth with you… or I would have just left. Just seemed like my ideas had a “snowball’s chance in hell” of being accepted.
It just feels like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. I’m prolly done with the new suggestions. Even in this thread I’ve probably said too much. 
Very specific. There are maybe 8(?) posters over 10k on this forum. I’d be the lowest ranked in Platinum, the rest are Diamond and Master players…so much for low ELO.
aubergineJeanTurtle
This might apply to some people you know. Definitely not to all of the bandwagon.
As you know it’s forbidden to call out names so you have to find out yourself.
So… played 7 games this evening… Won the first 4 and lost the last 3. All but 1 were stomps…
Heres the last game I played tonight.
My team (3 kills total): Brightwing, Murky, Stitches, Muradin, Raynor
Enemy team (24 kills total): Lucio, Mei, Imperious, Tassadar, Tychus
Guess how long I waited in the queue for that crap game? 20 seconds… What a joke.
A big reason why this game fell so short of its potential is people on this forum can’t even agree on the obvious. I feel like I’m standing in the middle of a tornado and having to argue with someone on whether its windy outside.
To form a high quality experience you should not look for 16 years boys, but people with the same fitness level and basketball skills. Which would represent the MMR in hots.
And this is actually exactly what MM does. It put people with the same MMR /avarage MMR for premades together.
But games in hots are not comparable to basketball. Basketball is a homogeneous game. Same conditions for everyone.
Hots is heterogeneous. 10 deifferent heroes in one game, with different abilities and a scissor-stone-paper system.
Games are highly determined by that heroes pick, not only the skill of a player (let’s assume the MMR of each player was calculated 100% correct, cause if not it would make thinks even More complicated).
So if A counters B and C, B counters D and E, E counters A, D counters E and C and B and E are premades. How do you put them in a „fair“ environment?
How do you weight up CC? Does silence and slows should be handled similar by the matchmaker?
What about waveclear potential? How much do you need for both teams to create a „fair“ game?
What about synergies like double-heal-valla comp? Aba + Illi/tracer/genji? Auriel + Lunara / Guldan?
How should matchmaking thread this?
What roles does matchmaking have to put together in a team? Remember hots is heterogeneous? There are much more possible comps than just Tank + Heal + Bruiser + 2 DDs.
Don’t forget, that most players refuse to play certain roles like tank and heal in solo que qm.
The matchmaker can only work with the pool of available heroes that players are queuing up with. It can’t produce Tanks and heals out of nowhere.
And all that is only the peak of the iceberg.
If the matchmaker would be able to create any game with all that restrictions,(Spoiler: it will take very very Long on high Pop Server and will never happen on low pop server)
then there will still be players behind the heroes who will still do the same mistakes (and you will still do your mistakes) and the players will still do different decisions during the games, which will lead to the feeling of „bad quality games“.
The only think that would change for you, are the utopic quetimes. But the result would still be the same.
You know what? There is a solution for all of that: play a draft mode, where you can do all the things you expect an algorithm to do, by simply using your brain during the draft and pick and ban wisely.
Or watch out for some people how wants to play in a premade group for you. Where you can build any comp you like to.
No restrictions needed.
That’s what people say, when I pick murky.
But what they don’t know is my 62% winrate in Ranked, in qm and even in aram where it is really a bad pick normaly.
What really is a reason for your loses, are not the picks in the loading screen. It is your weak mindset with a short horizon.
Just another proof of short horizon.
What about „throws“ how often do you experience them?
Ever thought about the perspective? What is a throw for one team is a comeback for the other one.
But you are right comebacks are rare, but only if you already gave up in your mind.
MM actually separates low MMR from high MMR depending on the gap for new players, if you are new player of the low levels of say 100 ~ 300 then you will only be matched with other players of that gap in the majority of cases with only few minor situations.
The MM is actually good for new players, not for old ones.
Also if you are playing with a new player, better make a smurf if you wanna make their experience less miserable, after all, the MM will take the highest MMR and build around it more than anything else.
Alright… unto the next guy to tell me its not windy outside. 
I used a simple example to illustrate a simple point. Speed is the enemy of quality. Take 1 variable into account… you’ll jump into a game very fast and likely have a stomp. Take 100 variables into account… you’ll wait a lot longer (or depending on the population of players that are “similar” to you… never get to a good game… like say… a Grand Master).
Look, CoD Warzone has a skill based matchmaker (SBMM) and a playerbase in the millions and I can’t get into a game in 20 seconds.
You have moved on to ‘How to do it’ when we can’t even get a consensus that the current system is terrible. Lack of quality games is the biggest threat facing HotS. Its the only thing that makes me want to quit this game (that and CC spam… but thats another topic).
So close games do occur now (just not often enough). How does that happen? By accident? By luck? There are no ingredients to a high likelihood of a balanced matchup? Of course there is. Virtually every multiplayer game out there has some form of a match maker and a lot of them do a good job… I wonder how? 
The old false choice that putting together a game has to take 30 seconds or 30 minutes… Like there is absolutely no middle ground. Its not a choice between either 5 variables or 500.
Not making mistakes is a HUGE part of a players skill and reflected in that players win%. I sure as heck hope skill is a part of the matchmaker.
Of course. Its the same concept… taking 10 minutes in a draft to craft the highest possible balance. I’m not asking for perfect counters in QM, and I’m not asking to sit in queue for 10 minutes, but how about putting the same number of tanks/healers/specialists on each team for starters? But you’re right… how could anyone code such complexities? 
Murky is just a viable as any other hero, just wouldn’t pair him with 2 tanks and healer… and then wonder why you can’t win a single team fight… I mean… how is this not just common sense?
“Throws” are what is know as “enemy makes a mistake”… its was in my very first bullet point.
Come on man… If you can’t comprehend what Im saying… please dont accuse others of having a “weak mindset”.
Lol, this is what these threads always come down to - whiteknights vs everyone else. When whiteknights are telling everybody that it’s not the game it’s them. However, if you system produces worse results with a longer queue (by your own admission above) it has nothing to do with a player perception and everything to do with a broken system. Just like a $200/person steakhouse that produces the same food as Wendy’s has nothing to do with its customers, it’s just a terrible restaurant.
Easy, it’s called AI. Starcraft is just as “heterogeneous” as HOTS with tons of characters, different stages of the game, etc and yet there is an AI that beats SC pros. Which means not only it “knows” those intricacies, but does so better than the best players out there, which is actually pretty normal as that’s exactly where AI does better than humans - complex environments with millions of options and interactions.
Not a bad analogy in regards to Hots. As Hots is F2P including everything, cosmetics and all, I guess the customer gets what they paid for?
Hey I have a high post count, which means I’m a hive mind white knight paid blizzard shill. Let’s see my comments where I’m telling everyone they are wrong.
Yep, I’m totally closed minded and I think Blizzard MM is perfectO, couldn’t be improved, no way.
I can’t find anyone in this thread who is arguing completely agasint the OP. What many people pointed out is facts:
A new player only queue exists, but to stop new players from waiting one hour, after a few minutes new players are put into games with established accounts. This was in patch notes many years ago, you can hunt this down yourself.
High level accounts doesn’t equal skill, so the new player could be playing with people who are more experienced with Hots but less skilled. QM often matches people of different skill levels even in established accounts. It then averages MMR, it’s not a great system, but it’s all for faster queue times. If you want more balanced matches, that’s what ranked is for.
The other factor to be kept in mind is bald fact that Hots has been in maintenance mode since late 2018 and is now a Blizzard Classic game. It has a lower player population than Dota or LoL, so even if the Devs spent time trying to “fix” the MM, without a decent sized population there is little they can do. Again, they aren’t even given the funding to do such a thing.
Keep blaming this all on those naughty White Knight if it makes you feel better. If this forum really is full of White Knights, really what difference would it make to Hots? Reddit is where the Devs post and interact with the community, not here.