Starting by removing Iceblock and finally give him Spirit Walk like he has in Diablo.
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he is designed as a ‘feast or famine’ hero but you want to mitigate the famine. I would say the difficulties you are seeing are the entire point. He is not supposed to be a hero you can play in every game. When it comes to feast-or-famine heroes you always want to error on the side of famine, or they become must-have heroes instead of the niche heroes they were intended to be.
My reply wasn’t for you, but Ocek who said that The Butcher needs a full rework, so he want your hero to be drastically changed. Is that what you want?
What’s the problem about “feast and femine”? Should be every a hero a generalist like Cassia or Tooton’s “holy trinity”?
It’s totally fine with me that some heroes are niche or “bad” for good players and again Butcher’s popularity isn’t that bad, you should take that into consideration. There are more heroes who are less popular than Butcher.
Old Tass was less popular and more hated than Butcher, he was considered a troll pick for a lot of players and still players are mad about his rework, you’re included. And you want to rework a more popular hero? Double standards.
Btw how is changing his nature being “feast or femine” isn’t a drastical change?
Maybe do not die on him as much and stop trying to rush meat quest. Butcher is a hero of timing and waiting. Slow farming meat in lane and waiting for someone to help you gank is the better way do it.
Most players will keep him roaming and miss out on the meat, Just soak exp and let the fight come to you, that stun with a good team rotation will get you a kill.
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I never mentioned anything about feast or famine.
But feast or famine are just extremes on a spectrum, you could mitigate the famine part and lower the feast part slightly and still have the same general feel for the hero.
My concern is less about feast or famine and more about gameplay that’s literally just waiting for a moment to charge in. If you’ve ever played Butcher in ARAM, it’s not unusual to deal a miniscule 20K damage and still win.
What the butcher needs is my proposed talent rework, I am level 107 butcher with 62% winrate stuck in diamond and can’t get to Masters
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Underpowered? Nah man. He actually has a good spot in the meta right now. What other melee assassin has a point and click stun and (basically) a stun that lasts 5 seconds? Not to mention, he can pretty much one shot most squishies late game.
It’s honestly pretty hard to go vegan with butcher unless you just charge people all game and go 0-8 and lose in 15 minutes, but that’s a player issue then.
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Maybe make his power grow gradually with his meat, rather than 200 meat or nothing.
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But Tooton cries for hypercarries like in LoL, but for unknown reason he don’t likes The Butcher, who is basically a hypercarry by design compared to Dota2/LoL. He isn’t that powerful in Hots, because Hots has “no farming early game”, but in Dota 2 he would be probably considered. broken.
How to stack Butcher in GM league in under 5 min.
And why do you think he act like this ? Cause he dont know better. He wants Hots to become just like LOL with items hyper carry heroes and surrender mode.
He even called me a die hard fanboi of hots just becasue he cant see past his own nose when he write his posts about something I have not even said aka putting words in other people’s mounths.
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This is the right way.
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Not to point it out, but you know in that video he states at the end that Butcher is a very “Meh hero”.
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Meta? Butcher struggles to even hit 5% popularity in Masters right now and most of that is pure pickrate. I wouldn’t even qualify him as a niche or off meta hero, he’s just not really picked enough to factor into the meta at all. He’s certainly not a good hero and I think the people here talking about how he needs a rework are spot on.
Fan makes a lot of heroes look better than they are as he’s one of the best players currently still playing the game, period. He even states in the video that Butcher isn’t very good btw.
TL;DR Butcher does need a rework and his current iteration has been slowly powercrept as the years go by and better heroes are created, other heroes get reworked, etc.
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I think he’s fine as is.
Nothing is funnier than “convincing” Butcher to go vegan lol
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Like Hanzo, Probius, Samuro, Yrel, Medivh and many other heroes, who has a below pickrate than the Butcher (8%). His pickrate compared to other heroes based on heroesprofile is slightly below the mid-ground, but still higher than other heroes you would probably call fine.
For a mid-ground hero in terms of popularity I would say no, just create a new hero instead. He isn’t comparable to Tass, D.Va or Gazlowe from the past. Maybe Tass and we see currently how few people are displeased about Tass rework on this forum.
Not sure if you’re accidentally including other leagues but in Masters, Hanzo is has almost 30% popularity, Samuro is sitting around 11%, Yrel is sitting at almost 8%, Medivh is currently sitting at 10%. Probius is the only one outright below Butcher but Probius has also been a joke for a while, enough that his winrate can drop ridiculously low and rise ridiculous high due to the insanely amount of games Master players actually pick him in.
5% and lower is definitely not “mid ground” by any stretch of the imagination. Being present in only 5% of games in ANY capacity means that a hero is bad enough that they are pretty much only picked as a joke or in games people know they are going to win (someone posted a Fan game earlier which serves as an example of this).
He isn’t quite as bad as Pre-rework D.VA but he’s still pretty bad. Old Gazlowe still had access to his grav o bomb to setup plays and could be mildly annoying with defending certain objectives with his turrets. Old Tass was DEFINITELY better than Butcher due to the fact he could enable AA comps and his shields themselves were quite decent.
yea but people miffed over reworks tend to be miffed because they don’t like the changes in playstyle, not because they were made worse. Making characters FEEL good is important but if the character is garbage, it won’t matter because people won’t pick them when they are trying to be competitive.
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I saw that and i know why since I play him many times myself. He said himself that he wont have high hero dmg unless fights last very long after he got stacked.
And even if you get stacked you can still lose no matter how many stacks you got past 200.
For popularity I have of course included other leagues. It is wrong to check the popularity of a hero for only 1-5% of the players. Sure you should consider the hero balance around the top playerbase, but you should also consider the popularity amongs all players.
Current prime example for a problem, where almost everyone agrees with Falstad. He has a popularity over 80%, because a lot of players abuses him. Frog calls them “bandwaggon” players.
If a lot other heroes falls behind, who are considered “fine”, it is.
Butchers quest component could tbf be entirely abandoned and the attack speed and damage just made baseline. He is that weak