Almost 500 days since valeera got her last round of changes

General Discussion
63

The basis of concern you’ve commonly expressed is based on both personal issues and making non-personal issues personal to you. If an issue is personal, then only the person themselves can really resolve it, and in so choosing to react to forms of disagreement as an ‘attack’ or ‘demonizing’ of a person, then that comes from personalized interpretation as it is significantly easier for people to both assume disagreement is a form of “attack” and to just complain in the hopes someone else fixes whatever problem is perceived to ail one in a way that… well, people can’t actually so do.

Problem being, is that they pretty much make themselves miserable from it.

Here’s a weighted question for the particulars on those that post dates regarding hero changes:

What is that supposed to accomplish?

From whatI see, Its a negative fixation for the sake of fixating on the negative that spiral’s people in a negative way to fixate on more negative aspects that rile themselves up with perpetual negativity. Simply put: it doesn’t fix the personally-afflicted concern and it doesn’t alleviate the point of concern for someone else to try to address it.

Its a zero-sum action that could be offset by… personal perspective.

The point of concern in choosing to victimize oneself as being ‘attacked’ can commonly be a misconception esp if said ‘attackers’ provide suggested means to try to improve as a means to offset the personalized misery.

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64

Dont worry there are a lot of shoulders for Valeera to cry on.

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No, people are disagreeing with you, then you take it personally, then it escalates from there. Try and read what people are saying dispassionately before leaping to the conclusion that everyone hates you, and see if the comments are appropriate or not. If not, ignore them, you do not have to lash back every time.

And yes, the obsession with Valeera is getting irritating, especially since the development team has acknowledged there is an issue.

If you want to be a better poster, try posting positive threads every now an then, rather than a constant stream of complaints and negativity.

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66

If you feel that posters are genuinely being aggressive or hostile, you’re better off Reporting them. If they’ve broken any rules, they will be punished.

If it makes you feel any better, I thought you were doing pretty okay for a while. However, you should definitely stop being so dramatic - just because people disagree with you or get annoyed by your single-issue approach doesn’t mean that you’re widely hated, it just means that they’re frustrated that you’re not posting better.

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67

It’s called a question. There is nothing wrong with being that poster, so if nothing negative comes with it, how is it an “accustation”?
Also, it’s pretty weird that you have accounts with that name and that account with that name which you use asked about Valeera from all the Heroes.

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9% is significant when numbers are already larger. Most stuns and silences dont exceed 2s. And 0.25s is already 12.5% on that. And most balance adjustments fall within the 5% range, and even those are noticed (again the tracer example).

Also note that silence is one of the strongest CC effects you can have. Only stuns (this includes stuns that force movement like horrify, taunt and mind control) are stronger on that.
Silence removes a lot of power from heroes. So on that, you could already state that AA damage and CC shouldnt be balanced in the same rules.

A 10% AA reduction is a lot, it can increase the time to kill someone by ~10% aswel. If a kill takes 5s to perform, its a 0.5s additional time required. But that barely matters when someone can just dash away. It only happens a little later. But in the end the target is still safe.

But on CC. 0.25s is enough to allow someone to use a getaway ability 0.25s earlier. And with CC, its usualy that the target dies during the CC. If the TTK is 3s. and you silence someone for 2.5s. You only need 0.5s of follow up CC. Plenty of heroes have that, with 0.75, it does often require more follow up CC. An additional cooldown that has to be used by the team. This is even more significant because that states you added an additional x seconds of cooldown to a takedown. Maybe that specific ability has a 12s cooldown, your 0.25 becomes 12.25 worth of cooldown.
And thats a side effect you create by these small changes aswel, and that is something that appears to be ignored here.

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(Taunt is a “seducing silence” :'D tbh and not a stun, since they still AA if they’re in range.)

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70

She’s still more viable than Tass, Chen and Vikings.

They have the priority

71

I don’t get what your problem with Valeera is Hailfail. I mean, she is almost the PERFECT melee.

She has a gap closer on an effective ~11 second CD (8 seconds of Vanish, then an additional 3 seconds to close a gap).

She can stay on a target with Sinister Strike.

She has both high AA damage (At 158 AA dps), AND high ability damage (Both in terms of sustain AND burst capability)

She has high HP for a melee assassin, and access to both the STRONGEST block in the game, and quite possible the strongest spell shield ability as well. She even has unstoppable on a short CD!

Finally, she has her choice of a short stun with long blind (Great for neutering AA carries), or a 2.5 second silence (One of the longest silences in the game), or even a small armor reduction with ability burst (For when you are up against a tank or whatnot).

She even has escape with her trait (At least 20% movement speed for 1 second) and Q!

Like, seriously, what do you want? 90% leech on all damage? Constant 50 armor? A button that instantly wipes the entire enemy team?

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Which is not very long range and easily countered. If you get unstealthed you are almost useless for the next 8 seconds.

It’s better than nothing, but it is not some incredible stick potential like illidan or zeratul.

She has a hard time just sitting there auto attacking a target. Other heroes who do it have movespeed, higher mobility, and/or self sustain.

Her ability damage is mediocre without Mutilate (which nerfs her chase and escape power a lot).

She has typical HP for a melee assassin with no self sustain and middling mobility.

Her block comes at the expense of crippling poison which is usually needed to stick especially with Mutilate

Cloak of Shadows is in her kit because otherwise she has no way to deal with heavy CC and burst. Maiev at least has the jump.

A 2 second blind is not great. Her level 13 Blind is needed for it to be exceptional. Even then, valeera cannot just go into the enemy team and blind the auto attacker. It is mostly an anti melee tool.

Her silence is basically all that makes her playable as a hero.

Ambush is terrible and is almost never used.

8 seconds after engaging. You could very well be dead by the time your vanish is ready.

You are only listing her strengths. You could do that for any hero and make them sound good. You fail to mention Valeera has poor waveclear and camp clear, is heavily punished by area damage, runs out of energy which prevents her from dealing sustained damage, lacks good multi target damage, and lacks self sustain

I want talent work and some efforts to be made to distribute her power better throughout her kit. I don’t want a straight buff, I want her to be more flexible and diverse as a hero, which you would hope she would be seeing as she has 7 basic abilities

73

Let me get this straight: Val’s main dmg is in her unstealthed Q, but she’s useless if she couldn’t engage properly? I’m not saying that it’s not a big disadvantage to get revealed, but she’s far from useless.
And she has 20% extra movespeed in stealth, so she has a good chance of dodging everything.

That’s argument is like saying that Zarya can’t really shield. “It’s better than nothing, but not a protected like Medivh’s FoW.”

She has the highest hp among melees, and has higher hp than some tanks and bruisers. So compared to what she has “typical melee assassin hp”?

Johanna: 1.5 sec (with talent it can be 2.5-4.5 sec, but you need to AA the target to keep it up and you give up cdr).
Lili: 1.5 sec (with talent it can be 2.25)
Cassia: 2 sec
Artanis: 4 sec
Auriel: 2 sec
Valeera: 2 sec (after 0.75 sec stun, so the ability countered AAing for 2.75 baseline and can be talented into 4.5 sec blind, which is 5.25 with the stun)

Looks fine for me.

There are a lot of Heroes with bad waveclear, even more with bad camp clear.
Every melee is punished by the same amount from aoe.
She has energy talents for that reason (4, each on different tiers).
Single target Assassins usually do.
She don’t need selfheals, she has armors, stealth, and a huge hp pool for that (plus her ways of shutting down the dmg sources, be it AA or Ability).

(Also, a lil’sidenote: you ignoring my ridleyfire reveal is a sort of admitting?)

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74

This makes no sense to why heroes like Diablo were reworked when they were used pretty decently in high levels.

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75

Yes. She is pretty much useless. If you can’t engage properly of course you will have a hard time. You have to walk up to your opponents taking damage all that time to start on them with your Q and they can easily outrun you if they decide to leave.

The point is that it is not a particularly powerful sticking tool.

All those heroes except cassia have big area blinds that can be applied from safe ranges. Cassia’s blind has to be kind of limited because it increases her dmg and gives her lifesteal.

Valeera has a single target blind that requires her to go within melee range of the target she wants to blind (meaning it is not safe to go in to blind their valla or something) so it is only very good against melees who come to her.

Again you miss the point. I am saying valeera has plenty of weaknesses too, along with strengths since the person i was replying to was only listing the things she could do rather than things she couldnt.

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Every Hero has weaknesses. But we list the strengths when we want to highlight where is its “niche” or that it’s not weak.

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That wasn’t what they said. They said “she is almost the perfect melee” meanwhile zeratul and maiev have 10 times her viability.

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Since Zera is overperforming and Maiev is still really punishing and valid after a ton of nerfs, I think the “perfect” supposed to mean: not op, not up, balanced, fair.
In that case, you missed the point.

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And I think you are grasping at straws

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Can I ask what you’d like changed about her that wouldn’t make Li-Ming/caster mains like myself hate our lives? I can kill lame Valeeras, sure - I can kill a lame anything with Li-Ming… But a sly Valeera? It’s pmuch constant paranoia until the game ends. Even if I catch her otw to me and knock her out of stealth I’ve still gotta get out of the area, if she closes I’m in trouble.

I don’t play Valeera outside of random whims, so I’m not really sure what specifically needs improvements, give examples? I assumed she’s like Nova, either a squishy killer/counter pick or the final nail in the coffin of a retreating low HP enemy?

Kinda unrelated, but thank god someone said this. I feel like every time I’m silenced I somehow go Ultra Instinct in real life and time slows down by factors of 10…

Are you implying that you’ve stopped?! :grin: :heart:

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81

It’s not grasping on straws to point out perfect is not op as you thought, which lead you to try to disprove @Frog’s points just because Val is not banned that often.

Cassia is a perfect ranged assassin. Other ranged assassins might be more viable, picked or banned more often but she’s the most balanced I know.

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No? :thinking:
I try to post Tassadar all time, where I can.

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