Will mill rouge ever be nerfd?

Community Discussion
1

Just asking, if it won’t i’ll be joining them because that thing ain’t fair.
Beats aggro, beats combo, beats mid game i’v even lost with 2 Dead Man’s Hand’s warrior because i discarded one and at that point i started questioning whats the point… When your at it take a look at resurrect priest turn 4 Archmage Vargoth turn 5 cast resurrect twice…

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2

Doubtful and…

How are you losing to it as aggro outside of once in a great while? I haven’t seen a Mill Rogue since rank 10ish in Wild probably due to the fact that aggro just crushes the deck too commonly.

Feel free to join them if you want and you’ll see how hopeless that deck is against aggro and some of the more aggressive MR decks.

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3

The mechanics of that forced overdraw dmges you, its is stupid you get dmg if a card forces to draw something which does not exist, while other cards do not.
Coldlight oracle is the one to be nerfed, there should be no forced fatigue dmg at each draw of somethign which does not exist. (read one fatigue dmg / turn max)

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4

You have not been to rank 10 have you? You see that crap all the time down there and its more common ranks 5 and lower.

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5

I play a lot of mill rogue and from what i can tell you any okayish amount of pressure simply kills mill rogue because they only have so many ways to stall until they die because they arent anywhere near the level of a control deck

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6

I never saw the deck last month from r8 to legend 158. You can feel free to check HS’s top-200 for May to verify.

Edit:
In addition neither Tempostorm nor Vs track Mill Rogue. Tempostorm because they don’t consider it a competitive deck and Vs because they lack the data to track it.

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7

it already got nerfed if they ever ran prep or even miscreant. The deck usually just down right sucks against aggro as rogue has no way to deal with a full board of minions with more than 1 hp. Vanish only stalls for a turn.

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8

It is not true and you would know that if you try.

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9

Actually the most recent wild Vs report has mill rogue in it. Check it out. Its tier 4 but has very goodmatchup vs big priest

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10

Ahh missed it then, my bad on that.

It’s always been superb against Big Priest (and Cubelock) but the only thing that’d make 3 of my 4 Shaman decks happier is more cards =)

11

I hate it because it promotes aggro. Any deck that promotes aggro, and even beats it a decent amount of times, is bad for the game.

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12

It is so uncommon that it doesn’t really promote aggro. Big Priest is the #1 deck that promoted aggro. More than anything though you play aggro to kill Warlock and Big Priest. Big Priest is obvious why and Warlock because aggro os the best all-around strategy against the class.

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13

Well, sure, don’t get me started on 2 mana resurect a 8 cost minion, and 4 mana summon a 9 cost died. And those 8+ and cost minions are overpowered to begin with… See, now you got me started :slight_smile:

So yeah, because mill rogue is not that popular, it’s not on the top of my list of Hearthstone problems, but it’s pretty up there for the reasons I already mentioned.

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14

Its wild ofc i can lose to mill rouge they legit have more healing then you have damage.
Prep vanish, heal, heal, flurry, Valeera the Hollow not to mention they run every cheap removal like backstab, then you have your Evasions that legit make them immune to but one of your minions… Its actually really easy to beat aggro decks.
And im not calling aggro weak here just showing how dumb mill rouge is…

The moment you are vs mill rouge you don’t play the game you are just lock out of it then draw way over 12 cards on one turn when he plays barns or Spirit of the Shark. Like they play spirit and then heal bot for 16 hp. How do you expect aggro decks to win? I’v lose with Wild heal zoo, hand buff pally, burn make and hunter vs them. Wanna know why? Because mill rouge with its draw power is way more consistent.

IMHO Coldlight Oracle needs to be rework’d i’v been asking for that since goblins and gnomes… I ain’t asking for a hard nerf but that card is way to easy to exploit and burn 50%+ of the opponents deck… imo that card needs to stop drawing my cards or have murloc synergy. With merloc synergy it might still make it to mill decks but youll need the rouge to have 2 oracles to use one effect aca forcing them to mill 4 less cards with bards and spirit combo… that will make it so i burn 12 cards and not 16 on that legit 2-3 card combo…

And give me time ill post my mill deck because i have indeed given up…

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15

If it could easily beat aggro (40%+) you’d see it a lot towards legend as you begin to see more Control decks because the aggro become so plentiful.

You have a decent number of “spikes” as you approach legend (guys trying to win above all else) you’d see it a decent amount, but you don’t. This should tell you all you need to know about your perception of the aggro match and the reality. Aggro can produce a ton of damage and never really run out of resources in Wild.

Without you posting your decks or replays I can’t comment; however, Buff Paladin I do play some and if your list is similar to mine it is Midrange not Aggro. In Wild the speed line for Aggro vs. Midrange is roughly Even Shaman.

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Legit mill rouge has at worst 40% chance to win its worst match up at best you can beat it if the 2 coldlight’s are its last cards 2 card.

So here’s the mill deck i’v been using.

Deck code

Life is pain

Class: Rogue

Format: Wild

2x (0) Backstab

2x (0) Shadowstep

1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos

2x (2) Cheap Shot

2x (2) Evasion

2x (2) Eviscerate

2x (2) Gang Up

2x (2) Sap

1x (3) Brann Bronzebeard

2x (3) Coldlight Oracle

2x (3) Fan of Knives

2x (4) Spirit of the Shark

1x (4) Waggle Pick

2x (5) Antique Healbot

2x (5) Vilespine Slayer

2x (6) Vanish

1x (9) Valeera the Hollow

AAEBAYO6AgTtBYUXgNMCiZsDDbQBxAHtAs0DmwWIB/gH9Q+AEoHCAt/jArHuArSGAwA=

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

I need 2 cards to finish it. Sonya Shadowdancer maybe a 2n Waggle pick but the 2n pick doesn’t feel to needed.
https://imgur.com/a/dKVwwWu

I can aggre on that fact that aggro is the hardest to beat.
But when it comes to aggro aggro decks can’t fully counter control/OTK decks or the rest of the game. Not to mention that if you have aggro problems you can add Deathlord’s (3 mana 2/8 taunt) and if you pick to do that you’ll have a chance to stop minion combos for late game decks as well.
As a matter of fact i think ill add the deathlord’s to my deck now that i think about it… Because who wants there opponent to play the game…
One more good combo vs Aggro 3 mana 2 cards, Doomsayer + conceal its a full board wipe, you force your opponent to pick as well “Do i play cards into the doomsayer to empty my hand or do i keep them and mill more cards?”. Now that i look at it i even have place for my Zola the Gorgon…

TL:DR Cold light needs rework because its way to easy to exploit.

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17

Its already been done. Prep nerf is a nerf to Mill Rogue.

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Mill rouge has well over 40 good cards ready to be fitted in, i don’t even run prep.
Prep is a good rouge card but not the best card for mill rouge, its was quite the easy swap.

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19

Well… we can disagree. The meta aggregation site has Mill Rogue as under a 40% WR against Burn Mage (aluenth), Odd Paladin, Murloc Shaman, and Even Shaman. Your, I’ll admit, cool Conceal trick really only helps against one of those decks, Odd Paladin, as Shaman tends to want to run 2x Devolve and Burn Mage just doesn’t care a ton tbh. That data is “All Ranks” as there isn’t enough data from r4 through Legend for Vs to have enough data on.

Aggro shouldn’t fully counter Control and it doesn’t. if aggro did that then Wild would have… well… Even Shaman pre-nerf on it’s hands. There isn’t a very good combo deck right now that is really running the meta but the only two, Renolock and Hourlock I can tell you Murloc Shaman will usually win (at least my version). Not sure on the other aggro decks.

Deathlords are good and might have a better place in the meta right now than they did pre-nerf patch as Kingsbane Aggro Rogue wouldn’t have cared a ton about the card. Something tells me though Mech Aggro Hunter is going to pick up a decent amount of steam and that deck is going to hurt as the deck has efficient ways to remove the Deathlord… not as efficient as Shaman but decent.

Aggro doesn’t care about Mill. You’re basically just as likely to MIll ‘meh’ cards as Doh! cards. I can only return to one aggro deck I know well enough, Murloc Shaman, to use as an example:
Oh well… I don’t care:

  • Call in the Finishers (you’re mill I don’t want 1/1s in my hand from Vanish)
  • Sludge Slurper (./shrug worst card in deck)
  • Underbelly Angler (./shrug you’re providing me fuel so much less important)

Doh!

  • Everyfin is Awesome/Blooflust depending on list
  • Warleader
  • Gentle Megasaur

Milling just doesn’t matter against Aggro as you’ll either stabilize through other cards in which case aggro wasn’t going to win or you’ll die and then the milling never mattered to begin with.

If it was Mill Rogue would be seen in ‘Spike country’ of the ladder and would be loved by Tempostorm which is an opinion site. There are three aggro decks you’ll have to kill for certain in the meta post-patches: Even Shaman, Murloc Shaman, and Aggro Mech Hunter. Paladin might find a non-Odd Paladin list as well (I always have a hard time defining Odd Paladin… is it aggro is it not…?).

If you want… go an prove the superiority of your Rogue list which is somehow going to rely on a turn 6 Vanish to survive and go to r5 or legend depending on your current rank. Someone called my Murloc Shaman list too slow to ever win on ladder last month so I took it to legend at a 67% WR just because it gave me the motivation to play MtG:A less. I highly doubt your deck can handle Even and Murloc Shaman… I’ve run both to Legend (Standard for Even, Murloc for Wild) and I don’t see you handling them well at all. Someone can state their opinions on the other aggro decks (Burn Mage, Token Druid, Mech Aggro Hunter, Aggro Paladin, Odd Paladin, etc.) but I don’t see it being able to reliably kill Shaman or Burn Mage which can Burn through my Control Priests at a decent clip.

Also, just as a FYI the Deathlords improve the Aggro matchups obviously but you’re slightly more vulnerable to Midrange/Tempo decks going that route usually as well as slightly worsening the matchup against Big Priest… true you’re still dominant… but something to consider.

Edit 2:
I decided to look at HSR. I no longer pay for the subscription to look at the data by rank but the top Mill Rogue list (10 unique users, 200 total games) is 53%

To give you a comparison top decks on HSR’s list will come close to 70% WRs for variations with small games played. HSR probably sees the top Mill Rogue list as low tier-3 if they did a Wild tier list AND used only the top performing list.

20

same case for me, only saw 1 or two mill rogues on my way from 15-3 last month.

On the topic, anyone who says Mill Rogue beats most aggro decks above 40% is either lying or just clueless, the deck runs just healbot for healing, the only “clears” they run are vanish, which can be played on turn 3 at the absolute earliest and takes 3 cards, and you just re play all the cards that got returned to your hand. They have backstab to deal with 1 small minion, and sap, where you can just play the minion again.