Make him Cost 8-9 Mana Simple As.
4 Likes
8 mana then battlecry should be changed to set your mana to 20 right away and the hero power to 1 mana draw a card
with such a drastic increase in cost a buff to its battlecry and hero power is needed too
Reduce the max mana from 20 to 16
You can’t fix something that isn’t broken.
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Imo, his hero power should be either gain a mana crystal or draw a card. Not choose one.
Being able to take 2 turns in one EVERY turn is pretty busted based on the combinations in the game right now.
That’s one of the things that cards are designed around; back when brann was first released, almost all battlecries were designed around him; in fact, that’s why he and rivendare were removed from the standard set rotation at all, because the devs said that their existence meant every single battlecry and deathrattle card had to be designed around them.
Basically, in all the sets around his first release, you didn’t have any “win condition” battlecries that cost less than 7. It was intended that if you wanted to do something crazy with brann, he had to survive at least one turn, so playing him at the correct time was important. That’s why there was no where near as much crying about c’thun as there was about denathrius.
Now, we’ve got a class that breaks that rule. It’s made even worse with anub’rekan, as druids can get armor even easier than blood DKs can get health, so it doesn’t matter what you do, how much hand interference or board clearing you might have, it’s nearly impossible to win against an early guff, due to all the draw power he and the druid class in general have.
2 Likes
Whenever I see these threads now, I know the players are playing greed decks.
2 Likes
So it’s a greed deck to last longer than turn 7?
by that point a druid can have enough mana to play miracle growth and earthen scales back to back, and it’s even more ridiculous if they’ve been using guff to boost their mana. They have so many tools to stall to that point that unless you’re playing pure aggro, you’re sunk.
The sheer amount of drawing power combined with easy armor generation along with the mana to play it all (or ability to ignore said mana) is a problem.
3 Likes
Why don’t you just post your deck list
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First, Ramp Druid is Tier 3. It’s less than 50% win rate. It doesn’t need a nerf.
Second, Guff was already nerfed pretty significantly, with his Battlecry and Hero Power changing from “Gain a Mana Crystal” to “Gain an EMPTY Mana Crystal”.
Third,
Hand disruption completely kills the win condition. Mutanus and Patchwerk can easily burn Brann or Anub or Astalor. Theotar almost guarantees it. Call to the Stand is also a very effective card to kill the win condition. Most versions of the deck do not run all that many minions in it. Jerry Rig, which at 2 mana was probably already played prior to that point, and Seedsman, which in most cases is played right away. You could get lucky and dodge the disruption by losing an Underking or Cryptkeeper. But generally, hand disruption is extremely devastating to this (or any OTK combo deck).
Thus, I think it is EXTREMELY unlikely that Guff would be among the upcoming nerfs. In fact, I’m optimistic that the nerfs to the faster decks (i.e. Rogue, Aggro Druid, Hunter) might allow OTK Druid to maybe sneak into the bottom of Tier 2.
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It’s sitting at alomst exactly 50% (49.77% as of posting), but regardless: all those hand disruption options you’ve just listed are either too late or class specific, so they aren’t really good counters.
Mutanus and patchwerk are both cost 7 and patchwerk is DK with one blood rune, and blood DK does not do well against Guff typically.
Theotar is cost 6
Call to the stand is 1 mana, but warrior specific.
Do you have any recommendations on hand disruption that
A: Aren’t class specific, and
B: Occur before turn 6 or 7, when the ball is probably already rolling
The only reason this deck is “tier 3” is because tiers 2 and 1 are full of aggro decks, which was my original point. I’m betting OTK druid is going to get MUCH higher than just the bottom of tier 2 once the adjustment is made this week, unless it’s also included.
Ramp druid isn’t an aggro deck by traditional standards, but if they’ve gotten to turn 7 without any kind of interference, there’s a good chance they’ve already won, they just haven’t gotten anything on the table that suggests it. So I dunno, silent aggro?
Guff kills and destroy any deck that is not agro based. Simple fact. Guff pushes out of the game so many classes and archetypes it is sad.
Same goes for Rogues IMHO.
There really is not much left to play. You either play agro or watch a guy playing solitary or you wait for the unavoidable OTK from Druid.
Disruption cards? Yeah right, just as good as cards meant to disrupt secrets, most of the time useless…
Acting like priest disruption and value don’t steamroll Druid
So you agree. Less than 50%. I don’t get your point here.
Turn 6 or 7 is fine. It wouldn’t even make sense to use a hand disruption card too early. You need to wait until the Druid has already drawn enough to have collected one or more of the combo pieces. Then play your disruption cards and automatically win.
Time will tell. Maybe it bumps up to mid T2 or even high T2. Why would that be so bad? Why can’t the Combo archetype have a deck that performs moderately well?
“So you agree. Less than 50%. I don’t get your point here.”
No, I don’t agree. The point is that it’s almost exactly 50%, so saying it’s “less than 50%” doesn’t hold much water. If it was something like 45%, yeah, you’d have a point, but that’s not hte case.
“Then play your disruption cards and automatically win.”
PHFFFFFT Automatically win? No. The issue with Ramp druid is that there’s more than one combo piece, so a single patchwerk won’t do anything to disrupt, you have to get rid of more than just one piece, and get extremely lucky in hitting the correct ones. That 20 mana means they STILL get two turns for the price of one, and the only way you can prevent that is if theotar manages to hit guff.
It’s performing more than just moderately well. It only loses to aggro decks, or ridiculously good or bad luck on the respective players. It’s not getting nerfed this time around, but I’m betting it’s going to get a lot stronger.
Yes. ALMOST 50%. It doesn’t need a nerf. Even if it was 50.23% it wouldn’t warrant a nerf.
Correct. If you hit Astalor, the combo is busted and the OTK doesn’t work. If you hit Anub, the combo is busted and the OTK doesn’t work. If you hit Brann, the combo is busted and the OTK doesn’t work.
The combo is Brann->Anub->Astalor(5)->Astalor(8)->Astalor(8) for a total of 64 damage split among all enemies. It requires 11 mana for Brann + Anub, so it requires either Guff in play OR 10 mana plus Coin or Innervate. If Brann is sniped, you can’t get the multiple Astalor(8)'s or the double armor buff from Anub. If Anub is sniped, you can only get the first Astalor(8) off for 32 damage. There’s certainly a chance you could win on the next turn, but not guaranteed. And if Astalor is sniped, then obviously there’s no combo.
This doesn’t necessarily preclude the Druid from winning on tempo, but even with all that mana, that’s tough sledding for this deck and it’s not how the deck is built.
Actually, it’s performing “almost exactly” moderately well with a win rate of “almost exactly” 50%.
Dear Devs, Please nerf Paper; Scissors is fine. Signed, Rock.
We will find out shortly. I believe Astalor was on the list of nerfed cards.
The deck’s win rate may improve if the nerfs drive down the popularity of Aggro decks and drive up the popularity of slow control decks. Depending on the Astalor nerf, I could see it rising into lower (maybe mid) Tier 2.
But if the Astalor nerf changes the text on Astalor Flamebringer, it could be devastating to the deck. For example, if it becomes Manathirst (10): Deal 8 More Damage instead of Deal 16 Instead, that could break the deck turning the OTK from 64 damage to only 48 damage. With armor gain and board minions, 48 damage is often insufficient to kill the opponent.
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So the Astalor nerf drops the OTK damage from 64 to 56. Definitely better than dropping all the way down to 48 but it’ll still pinch a little. But maybe OTK Druid still manages to sneak into the bottom of T2.
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We are weeks/a month away from a mini-set. Unless a card/cards do anything to counter Guff, I’d plan on him being the way he is until rotation in April
People have been complaining for months and they made a change knowing about all the cards to come/still in Standard i.e. Anub/Earthen Scales. We also just had one big patch for cards changes without Guff touched. I wouldn’t hold my breath for anything to be done before he leaves Standard for good.
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Just ran into another absolutely irritating OTK druid.
This one used coined celestial alignment on turn 7, then turn 8 managed to get their mana up to 7. Following turn was guff, a slew of cards that got them up to 54+ armor, followed by anub, OTK.
Yeah, the astalor nerf did NOTHING to them. If anything, it made other classes slower.
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Yeah, Celestial Alignment is another stupid win condition for druid. But its already been nerfed twice, and is, like Guff, leaving standard soon.
It really sucks when their combo goes off and you get annihilated, but I’ve found that the old adage “if you can’t beat 'em, join 'em” comes into play. And when I’ve tried copying decks, I find the deck is devastating when it pulls off the combo, but not consistent enough to climb with.
Yeah, its frustrating to lose to highroll draws, but its also frustrating not to draw the cards you need. Swings and roundabouts.