Basically it all comes down to the fact that power creep has killed the game completely. Power Creep went exponentially vertical since UIS.
It’s not even really the power creep, but the refusal to give every class good counterplay like secrets or disruptions spells/minions to punish overly fast aggro, uninteractive, or unhealthy combo/control decks.
I would like a cheap card that removes 5 treasures from opponents deck. Or maybe it steals 3 treasures leaving them with 7 and I get 3.
I’m sorry you feel that way, but I’ve played this game since it came out. I have heavy experience in it and have experienced literally every single meta the game has had to offer. The fundamental issue with Hearthstone has been power creep and printing cards that expand outside of the core gameplay mechanics (such as more than 10 mana, mana cheating with card cost reduction, OTK death from hand combos you can’t play around).
To call my takes ignorant is a bit hostile. Especially considering the thousands and thousands of hours I have in this game.
I’m calling for a major nerf to the best control deck. Yet, you’re saying I have a control mentality? The only way Demon Hunter is tamed is by having control decks. The reason it’s running rampant with such a high winrate right now is because it’s the fastest rush down deck in the game currently. It’s faster than all other aggro, and it’s a coinflip if control beats it or not.
Sometimes I wonder if we all play the same game.
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My nerfs aren’t exactly based around the meta, but around the power level of individual cards:
Juggernaut: At the start of your turn: Either summon a random Pirate or equip a Warrior weapon, then fire two cannons that deal 2 damage!
*also rotate Gorehowl and put Death’s Bite in its place
Guff - gain empty mana crystals (both on battlecry and hero power)
Scale of Onyxia - 8-mana
Oracle of Elune - 4-mana 2/5
Aquatic Form - 1-mana dredge, draw the card if it costs the same or less than your total mana crystals
Hunter Quest - reduce hero power’s cost to 1
Mr. Smite - 5/5
Pufferfish - only hits minions
Swordfish - 2/3 → 3/2
Cariel hero - lose durability when attacking
Switcheroo - ban from wild
Kael’thas - third spell costs 1
Seafloor Gateway - can’t reduce costs below 1
Snowfury Guardian - freeze 5 random minions
Tamsin hero - 7-mana
Kazakusan - discover a treasure for each dragon you’ve played this game and put it in your deck
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It is rather old experience and overly favoring the old that denies us progress. Hearthstone had these issues since the beginning. Pyroblast, double Leeroy Jenkins with Shadowstep, and so on so forth.
These problems were emphasized with power creep, but power creep itself is not really the biggest issue, with the most powerful cards now being on par with the best old cards, but rather the lack of complexity in interactions. They need to print secrets for every class, and more cards that encourage, not discourage interaction.
Your takes being in the old design team is reason I left the game for over 4 years. Ben Brode’s team killed a lot of my favorite decks to play by butchering a lot of cards. It was just aggro/control taking turns to be the best, and it didn’t feel fun even back them. More like just the same broken system with a different color. Your nerf suggestions just kill the decks, which is unhealthy for the game.
I like some of these, like Aquatic form is a good target. Dredge is a strong mechanic, and it costing 0 is too powerful, especially when you combine it with draw. Comparatively, on Rogues Dredge draw 1 card, you have to combo as well AND pay 1 mana.
I dislike the nerf to Scale of Onyxia. It takes away Druids only answer to aggro and it already struggles there even pre-nerfs.
Oracle of Elune is interesting… but I don’t believe it’s as troublesome if Guff gets nerfed.
Can’t really argue with the rest of the nerfs, they all seem reasonable, but some targets I think may not be worth hitting since they are powerful cards in not so good classes.
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So basicly Druid is gonna be dead against aggro? And we’re also nerfing both Rogue and Warlock (neither should be nerfed).
They would not kill the decks honestly. I’ve heard it time and time again. “Nerfed Caverns of Time is useless, Nerfed Pirate Quest is useless, Nerfed Leeroy is useless” They were all still staples of strong decks - just not broken and oppressive. Now Pirate quest is back in that category.
You quit for 4 years, yet call my takes ignorant… Nice.
I’m sorry you disliked Brode, they took too long to balance the game, but they built the most skill based and interactive version of Hearthstone. This feels more like Solitaire. You just play out your hand and who has the best one wins. There isn’t much thinking involved anymore.
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Discrimihate - have you tried other card games? I’ve looked outside Hearthstone, but besides Magic not much out there for skilled players.
Legends Of Runeterra is pretty nice.
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I really enjoy Legends of Runeterra, it’s definitely more skill based, but not as easy to get into. I really enjoy Hearthstone because of the good mix between thinking, skill, luck, and ease of play. You don’t always have to rack your brain for the optimal play. LoR is far more on the serious side, but great if you’re looking for something like that.
Also one big benefit that LoR has over HS is that you actually can craft the cards you need way easier due to the shard system. You don’t rely on rng in packs.
These were just a few of the nerfs that made the cards fair. Most of the nerfs were at the beginning. Warsong Commander’s nerfs is a prime example of trying to kill decks. Oh, and Starving Buzzard, Blade Flurry, Mana Wyrm and most nerfs in Hearthstone’s history were terrible. They didn’t think a second about cards remaining viable, they just want to kill the deck as fast as they can.
Mr. Smite nerf based on your suggestion would definitely kill Pirate warrior. The problem is the card getting generated randomly, not the card existing.
Mecha-Shark nerf based on your suggestion would also kill the card. The real problem is the face damage from the combo, not the effect itself.
The old Hearthstone was also pretty much burst damage from the hand. Weapons, spells like Fireball, Pyroblast. You just had more turns to high roll and top deck win conditions back then.
Power creep is only showing how broken the game is. When it’s slower it’s hard to notice the lack of disruptions, and the refusal of the team to add complexity and interactions can really ruin a game (due to the fact you had more time to topdeck removal and high roll) even with slightly powerful combo and burst damage, because you can’t stop them.
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This is the only one I will hard disagree on. Fundamentally, Charge is something the community has always disliked overwhelmingly. It’s why Leeroy was HoF’d. Mr. Smite should never have existed in the same capacity as a card they acknowledged was bad for the game, yet you’re saying he’s fine? He’s not. We even lost a 1/1 Charging boar. Team5 consistently acknowledges that Charge is an issue. The only other Charge minion in Standard is a Legendary that has a high armor requirement leaving it only viable in Control decks.
Your nerf to Mecha-Shark is completely reasonable, I have no issue with it, I actually think it’s a bit worse of a nerf than my suggestion. It doesn’t help Mech Mage win Control matchups which is going to be their biggest challenge moving forward.
Warsong Commander was a super oppressive card back when it was nerfed and it was hit so heavy because it was a core set card that they never had intentions of cycling out. Different mindset there. Same thing applies to Blade Flurry, Starving Buzzard, Mana Wyrm. They wanted to highlight the expansion cards and not have core set cards be the focus or card generation of the deck.
FlagKiller, I only partially agree that speeding up the game “exposes” how broken the game is. The thing is, even with 3 expos rotated out and only 1 rotated in, aka fewer cards, there are still a number of powerful cards and effects that you could theoretically play and build your decks around.
The problem is Ramp Druid, Kaz, or the worst of them the combination of Ramp Druid + Kaz completely decimates anything mid-late game, while in response crazy aggro decks are on the hunt for Ramp Druid.
The speed of the game pretty much excludes any deck building that is even a step slower.
The game wouldn’t be so fast if there were actual ways to slow decks down. No Dirty Rat, no Psychic Scream and no similar reprints of these good disruption cards throughout Hearthstone’s history in the core set is really disappointing.
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Charge is not too bad as long as can actually calculate the damage. Control Warrior used to have Grommash deal 12 damage in a turn but you can actually plan for it when you know they might have these cards in hand. Making the effect Rush would effectively make the card invalid. With control decks being able to gain tens of armor in a single turn, some charge effect and burst that can actually be accounted for and not be generated too many times with cards like the Juggernaut is good for keeping overly reactive decks in check by forcing them to try to win with actual late game cards.
Boar was rotated because it makes every buff spell burn damage for an overly cheap cost, which is bad.
Trying to overly highlight expansion cards is just a symptom of making an “unrotating” set. Why they ever tried to make classic eternal is just puzzling. Warsong Wrangler can literally be changed to minions with 2 attack it would not be broken, or make it rush but worded the old way, charge but can’t attack heroes.
Making classic eternal was partly how they could justify the game being free to play. It’s so players would have a primary pool of cards to pull from that would last from one expansion and on. Power creep eventually degrades this though. Boredom of using the same cards for all eternity also hurt this concept. It also didn’t have a requirement that the design team dedicate resources to a rotating core set, although later they decided to do this anyway.
I think druid is that good that it’s warranted 4 nerfs. Scale of Onyxia in particular is insane, specially in a class that can cast it early. In reality I think they’ll only nerf Guff and Raid the Docks, and do something about Switcheroo and Kael’thas, but if it were up to me I’d bring the power level of all these cards down a bit.