State of the Meta - Monthly top 500 Legend Perspective

So, where do I start?

Hello, I’m a former tournament player and consistent top 500 Legend player. I’ve played in multiple Dreamhacks and was a participant way back in Blizzards official Tavern Hero tournament after qualifying.

I just wanted to go over some of the issues I see in this meta and why some of us do not like it.

It boils down to this. This meta is by far BY FAR the fastest meta in the history of Hearthstone. It’s not even close. Sometimes you’ve already lost by turn 3. This leaves little counterplay and a feeling by the loser that there was nothing that they could do. This is a terrible feeling for any competitive game.

The meta definitely needs a major slow down. Aggro usually goes unpunished for overreaching or going face. It takes “me go face” to a whole new level - and it was already meme status before.

One core issue in slowing down the meta would be highlighting the superiority of Ramp Druid. This would also need to be addressed. Kazakusan would need a bit of a rework. It’s a good card, and I believe it should stay in the game, but it should be changed to something like “at the start of your next turn, activate this effect”. This would slow down the tools he generates by 1 turn while leaving him in tact in his current form. Guff would need to be adjusted. (Why was this card even put in the game to begin with, it’s a balance nightmare). My suggestion is to cap the mana crystals at 15 down from 20.

Power creep is real and needs to be addressed, but not in the way you might think. My solution - just give everyone 40 health. If you’re going to make all of the cards stronger across the board, make the heroes stronger too so it balances out.

Switcheroo. Sometimes I wonder if you guys have anyone on the team that plays the game in any competitive sense whatsoever. This card should NEVER have existed. Seriously. What were you thinking here?

Pirate. Warrior. We’re tired of it. Quest has already been nerfed once. I think the best course of action here would be to nerf Mr. Smite. 6/5 Rush, give your Pirates Rush. Realistic charge OTKs were supposed to be removed from the game, yet here you are adding them back because of Nessie. He wasn’t that oppressive before, but with the vast addition of new powerful Pirates + Nessie, he’s become a problem.

Rogue. Overall, this is a neat class this expansion that has some problematic tools. Swordfish should be a 2/2 weapon that dredges and gets +1 attack and gives +1 attack. It’s VASTLY overtuned. I also want to talk about Preperation… I think it’s time that this card just finds it’s way into the HoF. You took Innervate away from Druids for a reason… and left it with Rogues. Turn 2 with coin should not mean a couple of 3/3 stealths on the board with a follow up dredge draw into 2 more on turn 3… That is a game winning swing of momentum that 99% of decks cannot answer.

Mech Mage. This one is quite simple. Just nerf Mecha Shark. 4/3, deal 1 damage when you summon a mech - down from 3.

Demon Hunter - TBD. If these types of nerfs happen and DH is left untouched, we could be in for a DH face meta. Might require a couple of tweaks to keep it’s pressure down a little. I really don’t have any suggestions for this one yet. It might not be problematic when the meta slows down and more healing/armor/taunts are being used.

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You’re probably the highest ranked player I have ever had the chance to speak to. I believe your points are valid, and your suggestions not too crazy.

What are your thoughts on buffs? Do you believe any classes deserve to be improved? I’m looking at warlock.

And I completely agree that the speed with which games end is wrong. Games shouldn’t be decided so early in the match.

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What are your thoughts on buffs? Do you believe any classes deserve to be improved? I’m looking at warlock.

I would like to see how Warlock performs in it’s current state if the meta were to slow down a bit. I feel like Abyssal Curse Warlock has a lot of potential in a meta that lasts just a couple of more turns. Murloc Warlock seems weak right now, but that is just because every other aggro deck is so strong. I think it’s power level is where most aggro should be.

I think our weakest class right now is Priest. You’re either playing a highroll switcheroo meme deck or Clam mill. Neither of those are good for this game, but those are the only viable Priest decks right now. Just to compare this meta vs the meta that used to utilize these cards. Dragon Priest was a Tier 1 deck. When was the last time you saw a Dragon Priest? It has the same exact tools. It’s just not even close to being competitive anymore. I would like to see Priest Dragon tempo get some buffs. That was always a fun deck with a high skill cap, but easy to play.

I feel like Hunter is suffering the same thing Warrior is suffering from. All of the new cards are overshadowed by old cards, so it’s hard to get an idea of what might develop from those classes. Maybe the solution is just to retire quests a year early? That would vastly shift the meta overnight.

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You can’t take anything someone says on the forums at face value.

Also anyone can participate in tournaments.

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Of course. We have to take any claims made here with a grain of salt. I’m not about to call someone a liar, though. Unless, ya know, they are demonstrably lying.

You can’t take anything someone says on the forums at face value.

Good advice. You can google search my name and “Dreamhack” to see some of my results. I didn’t do half bad :wink: Noblord absolutely dusted me… with Pirate Warrior. :^) It all comes full circle sometimes.

Not sure if the Tavern Hero tournament kept records, but qualifying was over about a month so there were many local and online matches and they weren’t all recorded in one place. This one was invite only, so not everyone could play in it.

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Speaking of tournaments; I’d love to see a tournament mode.

There’s a big difference between playing at top 500 at the beginning / half of the season
and consistently finishing in the top 500. Feels very wrong to immediately assume they are better than everyone you’ve talked to.

There are some high Legend level players in the forum in which you are unaware they are because they don’t share their ranks.

Not sure, I searched your name real quick and only found Dreamhack Atlanta 2017 with a 2-2 result.

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Not sure, I searched your name real quick and only found Dreamhack Atlanta 2017 with a 2-2 result.

I also played in 2018 Atlanta and Austin. Atlanta I had a 5-2 record and was eliminated by Tars. I was 1 win out of Top 16 unfortunately. Not sure why that bracket isn’t fully available online. I guess you can either believe me or not.

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Sure, fair enough.

I have nothing against you, I guess I thought Killuminati’s reply was a little bit preposterous :innocent:

Definitely should take everything said online with a grain of salt haha. I just wanted to give a little history on my experience in the game before I gave my take on the meta.

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Even here you have Zeddy that every season finishes over that in high legend in both wild and ranked and his takes are beyond horrible in terms of balance.
If the top 1% had their way with balance this game wouldnt last 30 more days.

Of course we go on a case by case basis but the vast majority of the takes i see only makes me thank God none of our input goes into balance.

Prime example here but i cant talk much if i had my way all Demon Hunter cards would be unplayable.

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Well at least this guy has a good attitude.

Although I agree I don’t think the shark needs a nerf, mech mage isn’t really problematic.

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Well… Lately he has predicted almost exactly how things were going to be change in nerf patchs.

It’s true that the top 1% meta is vastly different from the majority of everyone else’s experience. I try to keep that in mind when making suggestions.

It’s really hard to make a comparison to top legend decks vs the decks used to climb. You tend to see much more control and longer games in the top of the ladder compared to when you’re climbing it. It’s just because fast deck = more matches = faster climb - usually.

My personal experience in top 500 Legend since the expansion released has been either you’re playing Ramp Druid or one of the other 3 super fast decks that can beat Ramp Druid. It’s kind of stale.

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I’m openly preposterous, thank you.

:wink:

I don’t think the shark needs a nerf, mech mage isn’t really problematic.

I was iffy to put it on the list, since it’s probably the weakest out of the 4 aggro classes - DH, Warrior, Rogue in no particular order then Mage. (Sorry Hunter) It’s actually probably considered midrange in this meta. But I do think the shark is a bit strong with the current pool of mechs. I don’t know the exact numbers, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you have a 50%+ chance of pulling one off of a discover mechanic. If there was a hard limit of 2 per game, ok that’s fine, but you’re able to nab them from Gorilla and Mothership. This is where their effect becomes problematic. It seems fine on the surface, but other cards make it a bit too strong. If more mechs are added to the pool, or there is a reduction in the consistency on when it’s discovered or summoned, it’s probably fine.

Mech mage isn’t problematic? lol…

It’s not the shark that’s a problem. It’s the 3mana mech discounting card that is the real offender imo. Mech mage is overtuned, it really doesn’t take much to see that.

If it’s gonna be left untouched and pirate warrior and druid becomes less of a problem, we will have a mech or naga mage stone.

Speaking of naga, this one should be addressed as well. Cheating out 25 mana on turn 5 is just not ok in any shape or form.

I think they’re pretty crazy. He’s taking about essentially reworking the entire game, with a different starting Health total and 7 nerfs, with an 8th implied. In particular, targeting Pirate Rogue and Mech Mage is dubious.

I’ve never really been a pro card player — I qualified for the MTG Pro Tour once, went, scrubbed out — but I have spent plenty of time in person with professional Magic players whose accomplishments greatly outshine my own. I know better than to hero-worship hot takes just because they come out of a mouth of someone who’s a better pilot than I am. Piloting and game design aren’t the same skill.

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There is one small issue of slow aggro itself.

Quest Hunter return.

Not that it did Go anywhere to start with but the deck basically make anyone without acess to burst healing or opressive early boards lose by default.

While i not see that becoming a major problem on higher ranks it’s easy to Paint it as an issue in the lower ladder.

Just slow down ramp druid will give space to some pre rotation decks that are good at dealing with aggro don’t ?

And nerfing pirate warrior should be the other priority.
I feel like the rest of the meta can wait if these 2 are adressed.