While I agree on the problems you brought up, your solutions are too harsh! Reminds me of old patchnotes that sometimes pulverized the cards. But overall I agree that the game is just too fast, but it’s their intention as mentioned by the lead dev in a recent interview. Mobile gaming and stuff.
fair points all, and if slower meta you could be right. i just don’t want to see a card killed if it can be avoided. hadn’t considered its versatility though.
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I understand they can come across a bit harsh since some of my suggestions changes the card text rather than mana, but unfortunately the reality is usually once a card gets nerfed once, that’s it. Very rarely does a card get hit twice, so it needs to be done correctly the first time.
Curious which one’s you think are too harsh and what might be a better solution. After all, it’s just me thinking about it and brainstorming ideas. 2 heads are better than 1.
The restriction is very relevant now because Ramp Druid runs many non-Dragon minions. They pretty much can’t play Kazakusan until they’re on the precipice of fatigue. Granted, they have amazing draw so getting to that precipice isn’t difficult against other slow decks, but it’s essentially a completely dead card against all things Demon Hunter, Hunter, Paladin and Rogue. As well as non-Amulet Mech Mage.
So if you’re saying the restriction isn’t relevant, you’re saying you play a slow deck without saying you play a slow deck.
Kazakusan does single-handedly turn what would otherwise be fatigue losses against slow decks into an intensely powerful offensive push that at least has a decent chance of winning. And Ramp Druid can add in more cards to add in even more late game with Azshara or Faelin or even Brann for doubling those cards. But each of those added makes the aggro matchups that much worse because it’s removing early and midgame options.
Yes they do play many minions in deck that aren’t dragons but any deck with a solid draw engine doesn’t care. Kazakusan isn’t meant to be slapped down ASAP in this meta. It’s THE tech card to win the long game against those decks. They aren’t going to pull that one card out that is propping up their long game win rate even if it sucks to draw against aggro.
Keep in mind this could be for any deck that had such a good draw engine. That’s why we saw it so much before rotation in other decks. Druid just has the most optimal ATM.
No one card should have that much impact on the closing of a game simply because you have a way around the restriction as opposed to other classes. That’s like saying Zephrys was a well designed card when in reality it was arguably the worst card ever created.
That’s why making it have a REAL deck construction limitation would be more in line with the cards power level. I guess we can be thankful they removed Locusts.
I’m sorry, but I don’t believe you’re as seasoned a player as you claim when you make claims like this. Mech Mage is Tier 3 in top 1k. If you were top 1k Legend, you would not be saying this. And the fact that you say down from 3 damage to 1 is extremely questionable. It’s a Tier 2 deck in Legend, and Tier 3 in Top 1K Legend. It’s win rate is dwindling.
I don’t know of a single high legend player that is asking for Shark to be nerfed to something to this degree. It’s a ridiculous change that I think even a basic Diamond player can see is a wrong nerf. Most seasoned players agree it doesn’t need a nerf at all.
EDIT: I didn’t read any of the other posts before posting this, and it seems others have caught on as well with the questionable suggestions.
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If you read my comments about it, then you’d understand my reasoning. No need for your bias here. I can’t help you if you choose not to read or understand.
TLDR to help you out a little bit. Mech Mage before the rush down DH deck was introduced to the ladder had a 57% winrate - which is in oppressive territory. Mecha-Shark has the highest drawn win percentage of any card in the deck. You must have glossed over where I said “Mech Mage is NOT oppressive right now” - because it’s not. HOWEVER. There will be nerfs, and if Mecha-Shark gets overlooked, that 57% winrate it had pre-rush down DH will easily be right back or higher.
Mech Mage is easily the best midrange deck in the game right now, but midrange is being destroyed by the rush down meta.
Please move along.
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Make Kazakusan like the new Hooktusk where you have to play a certain number of dragons during a game in order to activate its effect. As it is now, people seem to not really give a crap about the requirement, they just see it as “If your deck has no minions”. It could be literally any tribe and it wouldn’t change how people use it, so make it so there’s actually a deck requirement for it.
My issue with this solution is it’s a Neutral card. It’s also still very new. Not every class has Dragon synergy. You’d probably only see Kazakusan in Warrior or Priest if that was the type of requirement. I think the solution to Kazakusan Druid is just fixing Guff. The problem isn’t necessarily Kazakusan. The problem is having up to 20 mana and tons of card draw to combo multiple treasures in 1 turn that weren’t meant to be able to be used together. Goes back to my point on Guff - Why was this card ever printed in the first place?
Low 3k legend player here. Agree with many points. Disagree with Kazakusan staying in the standard game. One major issue with it is that it completely ruins vast majority of high cost / high value legendary / epic minions that are printed. Let’s say it ruins most legendary / epic minions costing 6-10 mana. Instead of running decks that are deep on value - Kazakusan warps it to be all about him, because the treasures are 10 x stronger than anything you could get out of any other legendary minion.
This incentivizes removal of any non-dragon from the deck and putting Kazakusan in as a essentially the main value play, as well as game finisher.
Blizzard realistically has ruined most other legendary minions with this one card.
Essentially we have a single card replacing any kind of value in your deck.
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I agree, Kazakusan was a mistake. Team5 has backed themselves into a corner. This wasn’t just some random card you get in a pack, you had to specifically pay for this mini-set with Kazakusan included.
It’s going to be really hard to nerf him without controversy.
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Your suggestion of shark to 1 damage down from 3 is still absurd. Like low rank player absurd. That’s the point.
If you’re truly high rank, the only thing you’re showing by making a suggestion like that, especially saying it’s “easy”, is that it’s possible to be high rank and still have absolutely no idea what a balanced nerf looks like.
It’s the worst nerf idea I’ve ever read about the card thus far, and that’s saying a lot from what we’ve read on these forums.
Not to mention, the 40 health suggestion shows the lack of serious thought. The game is balanced around 30 health and cards were made based on that. 40 health would kill lots of aggro.
You’re talking about 40 health and killing a minion like shark to 1 damage on top of that. The combination of those ideas just shows a lack of serious thought on why the game can’t be shifted to 40 health without BUFFING cards, not nerfing them on top of it. A 40 health game already would be a nerf to most every aggro card. You’d be double dipping that. A veteran of this game would know that.
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Schyla - you have no idea what you’re talking about. Haleh , the legendary dragon was completely overpowered when it randomly hit the board , for example before rotation with Cenarion ward or currently with Balinda. And it does 4 damage. Where as mecha-shark , does only one less, and it does that at 3 mana cost.
You’re NUTS dude , if you think this is balanced. I’m sure newbs play this with 1-2 mechs, but pros play it with a lot more mechs, and it completely wipes boards and faces.
I’m sure mage would need some other options if this is nerfed, but to think that mechashark is balanced is totally nuts.
I can’t believe someone actually holds this position lol
I personally believe Mecha Shark needs to be toned down to 2 damage per mech played, but that’s only because the discovery pools are so small you can easily find 3-4 copies per game with Mothership spawning it as well and the synergies are crazy with it right now with what you can discover along side it in terms of cheap cost mechs.
He’s talking about when it RANDOMLY hit the board from Cenarian Ward. When it did, it changed the game 100%. He has a point. You have some reading comprehension issues.
The thing is, 40 health for these aggro decks wouldn’t make a difference. That was a broad suggestion if Team5 continues with this design philosophy of constant power creep. That’s really the only solution if they keep making cards more and more powerful. Again, I’ll go back to my point about it. When Yu-Gi-Oh struggled with power creep, the solution was to increase life points. They did this twice and talks about them possibly doing it again. It works. I’m a veteran card game player in general, not just Hearthstone. I like to think I know a thing or two.
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And I’m talking about how he’s trying to compare haleh and mecha shark to compare damage and how damage is busted when chaining off the minion.
Chaining damage off the two is completely different. Mecha shark is not deserving of a nerf. Plain and simple. Comparing it to Haleh to somehow show that it’s broken is absurd.
And like I said, I can’t believe someone even holds that position.
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So, lets say Mech Mage was still at it’s 57% winrate #1 deck rating it was a couple days ago. Mecha-Shark had around a 65% drawn winrate - which is absolutely absurd (now its 58%). How do you think that in a meta where this drawn winrate of this card is undeserving of a nerf? When DH inevitably gets nerfed, it’s going to be a Mech Mages world with Mecha-Shark being the core of it’s power output mid game.
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Schyla ,
Haleh sticking on board = game won. Why? Because it’s stuck on board, and because it deals 4 damage every spell. Basically gg.
Mechashark is almost the same, but deals 3 damage.
Got it?
The only reason Haleh is not OP is because it’s 8 mana, and was only OP in certain circumstances where it hit the board with plenty of mana pool remaining (Guff Druid or Balinda).
And Mechashark is totally OP because it 3.
Get it yet??? 8 is much larger than 3? Helooooo
I don’t get your point about spells vs minions.
You are suggesting mostly unhealthy nerfs. You’re not really changing the game, you’re just putting control on top because aggro decks will be absolutely unviable when everyone is at 40 health. I’m tired of archetypes taking turns to be viable, and putting control on top through artificial balance changes ignores the fundamental issues that has not been addressed in turn one.
Mr. Smite is mostly fine at is, actually. The real problem with this card is it being generated randomly with no ability for the opponent to prepare. Real solution, change Juggernaut and Nellie to only get Pirates that costs (5) or less. We can keep archetypes good and fair without making them insane. Decks should still be able to close out games as long as you can calculate the damage and think about the possibility of Mr. Smite in opponent’s hand. The Juggernaut should also equip a 3/1 weapon at all times, so no unexpected burst damage. Nerfing it to Rush would kill the deck, which is not what nerfs are supposed to do.
Mecha-Shark nerf you suggest would also kill the deck. Instead it should damage minions instead so that the deck is more board centric and more focused on tempo and minions instead of being very reliant on a hand-based burst combo with Seafloor Gateway.
Guff should instead be changed so that ONLY the Hero Power can make you go above 10 mana. Natural mana gain and the ramp spells shouldn’t work so that it is limited to once per turn.
And if you don’t count Pirate Warrior, most aggro decks are not even that overpowered. Most of them lose a lot to control decks and most midrange/tempo decks have good board tools to deal with them. Face Hunter is at an all time low. Token Demon Hunter is ridiculously easy to deal with for control decks and can be contested with other decks as well.
Your Kazakusan nerf suggestion is also very inelegant and ignores the real issue. It should have a more build-around theme to it. Good way to change it is so that it gives you 1 treasure for each dragon you played, so it actually belongs in a dragon deck instead of a fatigue control deck.
And the main issue behind all this is the lack of counterplay. Give secrets to all classes. Print more cards like Dirty Rat and Psychic Scream. Allow players to disrupt their opponent’s game plan. Slowing down the game artificially just means the uncounterable combo comes on turn 12 as opposed to turn 6, it doesn’t change the fact that you CAN’T counter them, you’re just buying yourself turns to pray that you draw lucky and pull your unstoppable control win condition to flood the board. This is still boring top decking gameplay.
Your suggestion is just giving the wrong system a different face. Your control-centric and ignorant mentality is what’s causing the game’s unhealthy meta. Next time we have a control meta aggro players will call for nerfs like you, and you’re gonna be angry.
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