150ish
Yes
No, because of the pandemic, I actually play more. However, I earned about the same amount of gold.
Believe is for blievers. Rational people use math, or at least simple observation. As shown above.
Also, I am not implying anything. I am stating it directly.
Donât forget that in the new system, you need to spend 1 hour of time inside matches to get 400 EP. If you subtract waiting times in queue and breaks, it will be actually way more. I assume something like 70-75 minutes, to get 13,33 gold.
Everyone should be able to make more than 4 wins in 70-75 minutes, especially if we consider those matches where your opponents instantly concede, or matches that youâve won by midgame already.
This means thatâŚ
⌠this calculation is not accurate. Because
Those two factors divide the old and new system further than displayed by you, resulting in a huge gap after a week, a month or even the lifetime of one season pass.
Not at all. This is even a better example, if youâve been playing tawern brawl, people tend to surrender after 2-3 mins in average if a match goes wrong because they donât lose any rank. You could even earn gold there way faster.
This reminded me, I used to farm certain brawls, easily getting 30 wins in less than 2.5 hours. Not possible to get 100 gold this fast now.
So I actually did the math, if you saw my previous posts. All you did was claim you made more gold in the old system and left me to make assumptions based on the math I provided how that could be possible.
I just played for 1 hour and won 3 games. Old system gives me 10 gold. New system gave me 341 XP. If I continue this for 5 hours I get 50 gold in old system, 50 gold in new system (+ extra XP that contributes to my next level)
Simple observation: Similar play time gives similar rewards. Are the rewards less spaces out? Yes. Does it maybe feel like I am making less because I didnât get my instant gratification of 10 gold today? Yes.
Rational people use math or simple observation to dictate what the system really gives them. This is all in addition to the entirety of the tavern pass that I already unlocked over the course of this expansion cycle which included more gold, packs, tavern tickets, and a skin.
And no, you werenât stating anything directly because there are no literal smoke or mirrors. You used a metaphor. Metaphors hold meaning beyond what you stated directly. Calling someone a sheep and saying someone falls for a smoke and mirrors illusion that you claim anyone with simple math knowledge should understand is a similar metaphorical sentiment.
This honestly sounds like it was probably not what was intended and possibly part of the reason the rewards system was changed, to prevent this type of behavior.
So, what about the times where you also donât win more than 4 games in one full hour? You canât only look at the times where you get above average outcomes and claim that will hold true for all of time. That is why the new system is more fair, because your rewards are independent of this luck.
There is no way you are saying you sit in queue for 10-15 minutes per hour of in game time. That is ridiculous, even for top levels of play. Maybe 2 full minutes of queue time per hour, if you queue at 4 am.
When your opponent instantly concedes is something I did not consider, since those are shortcuts to your extra gold in the old system. However, all that means is you wasted maybe 30-60 seconds if you instantly re-queue (regardless, you still gain xp even if it is a short match).
I donât play tavern brawl outside of getting the free pack for playing. If that was a system you honestly used in the old system to gain gold, then Iâm sorry that system is no longer available to you. But in using that system, you also need to recognize that potentially you are the one conceding after a few minutes if the match doesnât go your way, so its not like you are making 10 g every 10 minutes.
Then Iâll grind it quickly in Tavern Brawl and catch up. I always had the freedom of choice if I just want to play or grind gold, now I can only play.
Taking your opportunity away to make more gold and punishing you to make bad players with low winrates earn a bit more gold isnât fair at all.
Iâm saying that youâll most likely visit the toilet in between, grab a drink, reply to a message etc - so the time until you finish one full hour might take a little bit longer. That 60 minutes of playing hearthstone doesnât equal 60 minutes being inside matches and making 400 EP.
The old system however, is done when your match is. Win or lose, get your gold or not.
I bet if I start a stop watch that I let only count minutes when a match begins and ends and come back after 60 minutes, I will have more than 4 wins.
It happens everyday a few times so we should consider it.
It means that you just didnât get 1/3 on your way to 10 gold.
Yes, and still more than 4 wins per 60 minutes of playtime.
BS, it was like that for many years and not an accident. But youâre right with the fact that the system was changed to let us make progress more slowly and spend most likely more real money ingame.
From everything you said, I am inclined to believe that you personally made more gold under the old system because you knew it extremely well and were able to really optimize your gold returns by exploiting certain behaviors in the system. I also think that the developers were specifically targeting players like you who were making more gold than was intended (even if you were doing so for years). I personally have more gold than ever before and have bought every card back and the mini set with gold, but I also never focused on gold optimization pre-rewards track.
No, I rarely did that because playing the game the way I want to was more important to me than to grind. But like I said, mathematically everyone made more gold by just playing the game alone. (If youâre not a total loser with an extremely low winrate, so low, that youâre basically almost only spend 80% of your time losing)
Even if I stop watch now the time for 60 minutes spend within matches I will come out beyond 4 wins. And this sums up over 3 months, day for day - itâs a huge amount of gold.
May have different reasons, but mathematically itâs not the fault of the new system.
I am sorry about your poor winrate. However, your standards donât necesserily apply to others.
Addendum to my observation: if your winrate was really low, current system might give you more gold. It doesnât to me though.
Of course it wasnât. The intent is to make as much money as possible. Easy gold goes directly against that.
Issue I have here is that 60 minutes playing hearthstone = 60 minutes inside of a match. I donât consider going to get a drink or going to the bathroom part of the game, and I also donât think the reward system needs to reward you for that timeâyou should be getting rewarded for in match time only because that is the game.
So if we are looking for new system exploits (in terms of gold maximization) then you can play the game and rope every turn. That brings your definition of 60 minutes playing hearthstone closer to the 60 minutes of in match time too. Maybe try grabbing a drink on your opponents turn or playing mobile to take the game to the bathroom with you.
My point is if you want to exploit the rewards system, you can if you want to maximize gold value. But the game isnât about collecting gold or even cards, its playing the game. And if I earn rewards for playing the game in more flexible and fun ways instead of having to waste time grinding a tavern brawl that bores me, then Iâll take the former.
I should probably say I still think the game is expensive. As someone that likes to play a variety of decks with fun legendary cards, it does cost a lot to get any 1 specific legendary I want if I donât get it from a pack. But, this is not a new problem to the game and I had the same problem in the old system as many did. I could have looked online for gold grinding tips and maybe found a thread about abusing the tavern brawl, but then I would have spent less time actually playing the game with the cards I have (which I think was the whole point of this rewards revampâto get people to play the game more).
Thatâs kind of the point. You never have to spend money to play, but people spend their careers working on this game. It should be no surprise to anyone that if Blizzard finds a way to keep their system rewards at a similar level (which I know you disagree with, but for players like me the system is similar) while simultaneously encouraging people to spend money with cosmetics and more card variety, that they will work to implement that system.
I admit, you technically do progress more slowly without the tavern brawl system you used to earn gold. But for players that arenât constantly thinking about how to maximize their gold and just playing the games various modes, they are being more rewarded (win or lose).
The tavern brawl seems so efficient that if all I cared about was gold, I would have logged in every day and played the brawl for 3 hours to get my 100 daily gold (3 minute games, 50% winrate). Is this what you did regularly? I am genuinely curious how often you did this
That wasnât my point. My point is that when you make 4 wins within 1 hour of playing Hearthstone (not spent within matches) youâll have your 13,33 gold.
But in the new system you havenât because 60 minutes donât equal 60 minutes in game, that means youâll need to play longer, to get the same amount of gold, thus the old system is ahead here.
Yeah but still I am limited to 13,33 gold per full hour spend in game, even if I rope. Whereas my past-me in Hearthstone at that point has by far exceeded the 13,33 gold. Maybe already 20 or something close.
Quite the opposite! Your example proved this, even if you rope all the time, you wonât get past the limit of 13,33 gold per 60 minutes inside matches.
It isnât, but everything has limits and is debatable and currently I think theyâre moving into the wrong direction, because if there are only 10-20 gold missing until my next pack/arena run, itâs pretty frustrating that Iâd need to play 0-4 hours to get that instead of just making my occasional 3-6 wins quickly.
Itâs a terrible gaming experience, especially considering how it has been before and that it feels like something got taken away from you.
It was just like, that some Tavern Brawls had some superior meta decks that would make you win within 2-3 minutes against a majority that wasnât playing this deck or experimented with something else. Or the kind of Tavern Brawl just sped things up.
People tend to concede pretty quick if theyâre not losing any rank, that makes winning (and losing) much faster there.
Yes my winrate was technically poor for that 1 hour of gameplay (I had a 50% winrate).
But I wouldnât go as far to say its a really low winrate. If you are winning 60% of your games all the time, the cost of the game shouldnât matter to you since you would be winning all the masters tours and gm tours and make plenty of money in tournament rewards from Blizzard to afford the game.
Addendum to my observation: Average play gives better rewards than the old system. And to be even more detailed, 50% winrate is better than average since in the old system, you got 0 rewards for a tie or a loss. So in all the games played, maybe 49.5% are losses, 49.5% are wins, and 1% are draws. So actually, my winrate isnât low at all, its better than average.
So yes, I will be in favor of a system that gives more gold for the times you are at or below average (which is a larger portion of time than you are above average).
I canât speak for your gameplay experience, but if you have connections to RN-Jesus and are always able at a 57% winrate, tell him to hit me up
Perfect example of your lack of logic.
At times, my winrates were even higher. However, aside from the rare occasions of profitable brawls, I rarely spent more than 40 to 50 minutes a day playing HS. Competing for tournament placement, and the tournaments themselves are not something that interests me, and would take way too much time I prefer to spend otherwise.
Also, personally, I donât care about the cost of the game. I donât spend money on it at all. I donât need to.
I do dislike greed though.
Nope. And math shown above proved otherwise.
I donât. Quite the opposite, actually. Still managing to put the wins though. Probably against opponents like you I guess.
Ok so then we have an issue with the calculated value, because our assumption on your gold earnings was based off in match time for the old system.
From an older post, the 13.33 gold per hour value we agreed on was based on 8 minutes per match, so we canât now say that you get 4 wins within 1 hour IRL when we calculated it based on in match time requirements. In both systems, you are only working towards your goal/rewards when you are in a match.
Iâm willing to accept I could just be a worse player than you, but I think for the broader audience of players, 4 wins per hour of IRL time is well above average (like we said, 57% winrate deck with perfect play). We should also consider that this system is not something everyone playing could succeed in, since it is actually impossible for everyone to have this 57% winrate and even have the chance to get 4 wins per IRL hour.
So I guess another way to see this rewards track is a redistribution of wealth from better to worse players, though I still think the worse players gain more than the better players are losing (barring the loss of the tavern brawl). Again, I had not considered the tavern brawl as a source of gold income like you had when we started this conversation, but I do see now how that is a frustrating loss and definitely is not fully made up for in this rewards system. However, as someone that didnât do that and plays/thinks about the game from a different perspective, I still see the rewards track as a comparable alternative to the old system.
It didnât though?
The average winrate through the whole game is 49.5% ( assuming 1% of games end in draws). If we ignore draws its 50% since every player that wins a game causes another player to lose a game. So yes, my average gameplay for that past hour (50% winrate) gives slightly better rewards than the old system because of the extra XP that carries over:
It wasnât logic meant to be taken literally, I was using a hyperbole. I wasnât actually suggesting that you could legitimately use the tournament system to forgo the cost of the game.
I also am able to put in wins; currently 4000 in legend. I donât win every game though, and it is nice to be rewarded when you win and lose because it lets you have fun while still earning gold and not always focusing on winning.
This I agree with. I am not disputing the fact that current system is better for you or some others. Just that it is better for earning gold in general.
It is helping, even for a little bit, you may not want the golden cards cluttering up your collection, but they allow you to need less cards, you can play with those instead of the. Normal copies, so you can just disenchant the normal copies
No golden or diamond cosmetic coin yet??