Good point. Priests just constantly pull out board clears and drain you of your will to go on. It’s a battle of attrition, a test of patience and your ability to not overcommit. They’re probably the class that gets the most concedes.
Rogue just combos you to death out of nowhere, using multiple cards that didn’t exist in their hand the previous turn, making it impossible for you to play around it.
An interesting difference. Not sure which I prefer. Probably rogue, least my hair doesn’t grey waiting for the end to draw near.
Except Sage was telling me that galak priest is about generating a bunch of “lame minions” and the game plan is to “vomit” them. But now you guys jump to talking about cards (mostly spells) with conditions.
Note my wording: “filling their hand”, which is both card draw AND card generation. Rogues are obviously at the top when they have both the draw and lackeys and card stealing. Locks depending on their deck also have access to some combination of lackeys, draw, and card gen. To top it off, they (well, mostly rogue) can keep their hand filled while throwing stuff at you and/or removing your stuff.
Note another thing : me saying rogues and locks are at the top doesn’t mean I’m saying other classes have it bad. They fall on a spectrum as I first told Sage.
After the warlock completes his quest, every card he draws costs zero mana. That means that plot twist sends Maly to the deck at 9 mana, and then returns it at 0. Supreme Archaeology makes every cards you draw cost 0. Plot twist shuffles first, and then draws second. So once Supreme Archaeology is online, playing plot twist makes every cards in the warlock’s hand and deck cost zero for the rest of the game.
Zero mana Malygos blowing you up is not a fluke. It is not a heart of the cards trick. It is a 100% guaranteed result if you’re playing a slow deck that can’t pressure the lock in time. Galakrond Priest’s biggest problem is that it’s worst matchups are beyond horrible and there’s nothing it can do to fix that. Quest warlock is basically an auto loss. Priest stands less of a chance of beating quest warlock than odd warrior did at beating a mechathun deck back in boomsday’s initial release season. That’s how lopsided the spread is. And Mage’s RNG, Rogue’s galakrond generation, warrior’s draw, hunter’s pressure, and even libram paladin all give the deck a very hard time.
Galakrond Priest is a tempo deck. That means it’s best matchups are against aggro and midrange decks. Anything that has an OTK, massive burst, and even other control decks is a pretty a brutal fight.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
thank you for the laugh
You know what ? I’ll be nice (or fall right into your trolling) and tell you what the quest reward is :
it changes your heropower to a 2-mana cost active heropower that does “draw a card. Set it’s cost to (0)”
I agree that QR had polarizing matchups. But if it’s as you say, that the enitre meta was destoyed due to that polarization, why bother with “balance” adjustments? Why not simply HoF the card? The nerfs they implemented did not balance the polarization. If it did, then they would have taken more drastic measures to dampen its win rate against control AND increase its win rate against aggro. They did the former but not the latter. This means that their intent was to DESTROY the deck. (Which is why I said they should simply have HoF’d it rather than feed us the bullcrap that it was a balance adjustment). A polarizing card that needs a balance adjustment should get balanced. But when it’s a card that everybody is complaining about, Blizzard caves and the card just gets destroyed… twice. That’s why I say the complaints have a significant factor in balance decisions. I didn’t say (nor did I mean to imply) that it was the only factor, but it is a significant one. Even Blizzard has said that public perception about a card or deck does play a significant role is their development decisions.
Priest is not at that level of complaints. But I’m certain that if we start seeing multiple 1000+ post threads and dozens of new complaint threads popping up every day about it, you’ll see some impact. But it’s not at that level.
Because they could never balance it… It’s one of those cards that got through every playtesting (if any) and got released…
It did not fit Rogue and shouldn’t have been made for Rogue.
Hell, the card was pretty much remade into what it should have been in Saviours of Uldum and has there been complaint of that one? nooooo, well, with the exception of a rogue stealing it from a Warlock.
They didn’t wanna HoF because they didn’t want to admit they failed at their balancing job.
It fitted rogue very well and thus was the exact reason why it was so strong.
Rogue likes to bounce it’s minion a lot, wich is exactly what the quest demand you to do.
Or because they thought it would keep preventing them from making cards that work with this mechanic. It’s not like they never do anything to try to balance wild, after all.
… I think the reason I said it did not fit rogue went over your head, thematically and because of the very bounce mechanic, it should never have ended up in Rogue especially when there was several cheap charge minions at that point.
Just because it has bounce in it’s quest, it doesn’t make it roguish nor is justification for it’s creation.
Look at Dark Pharaoh Tekahn… it’s the same bloody card done RIGHT.
Caverns Below was titular biggesting disappointment during Un’goro.
How do you know that? They only did one side of the balancing. They increased the bounce requirement from 4 to 5. That allowed control decks more time to get to their more powerful stuff and give them a better chance to win. But they didn’t do anything to improve QR’s weakness to aggro. That might have balanced the card. Combo is always going to be favored against control and weak against aggro. To overcome the severe polarization, they needed to drop QR’s win rate against control. I don’t know what the numbers were, so I’ll just throw some made up numbers out there. If it was 80%-90% win rate vs control, they needed to drop that to 60%-70%. And with only a 10%-20% win rate vs aggro, they needed to increase that up to 30%-40%.
Also, a lot of the complaints were not that the card was polarizing. It was that there was little that you could do to disrupt what they were doing. People found that frustrating. Brian Kibler had a complete meltdown on stream and had multiple temper tantrums about it.
That really has nothing to do with the polarization of the card. It’s the emotional reaction to watching someone’s win condition develop right in front of you and there’s almost nothing you can do about it. And that is my point. How the players feel about a card is an important factor.
It’s possible that QR could have been adjusted to be properly balanced. But Blizzard never even tried to do it.
I mean, that’s a hallmark of polarization. After a certain point in the game, there’s basically nothing you could do against Quest Rogue. Even killing them from hand was nigh-impossible because of the availability of Rush Lifesteal. You couldn’t whittle down their board because they just bounced things back to hand or played Sonja to go infinite. Plus Charge.
Ultimately, though, the reason the deck had to die was the old “Limits Design Space.” Any cheap minion / token generator had to be balanced around “What if it’s 4/4s?” And then they forgot to do that and that’s why deck had to be nerfed over and over again.
Personally, Kibler’s individual opinion means more than any of ours. He has a lot of friends at Blizzard, a lot of experience in competitive card games, and a lot of experience designing card games. He definitely knows more about the mechanical level of game design than any of us. If he hates something, it’s a good reason for the design team to take a closer look at it and the impact it has on the game.
My context of polarization was simply that it had a massive advantage in some matchups and a massive disadvantage in others.
Whatever the reasons (and there have been plenty of them tossed around, including player complaints), why wouldn’t they simply delete the card? Why feed us the bullcrap of calling it a balance adjustment when in reality all they did was make a balanced card (polarized, yes, but balanced overall) into an unbalanced card that was so weak that it became unplayable? Why not actually try to balance it? Or rebuild it completely? Offer the refunds and put the effort in to create something different?
To whom? To you? Fine… then say that. But that doesn’t mean everyone else (or anyone else) feels the same. Kibler’s a player like any other. He’s going to complain about decks that have huge advantages over his and be silent when his decks have a huge advantage. Although I do commend him for standing up against Blizzard when they were kowtowing to the Chinese governement instead of supporting the people suffereing and fighting for their lives over there.
This is wrong in so many levels. There is no way that one individual, aka Kibler, can have more experience and expertise than the collective knowledge-base of 100 million players.
lol this board is maybe a thousand people. Probably more like a few hundred. And it might be impossible for the entire playerbase to be wrong, but that’s because all opinions will be represented in a large enough audience. It’s entirely possible for the “right” decision to be in the minority.
And I never said his opinion was worth more than the entire playerbase, I said “individual opinion”. His individual opinion is worth more than mine, more than yours, more than any other single person on these forums or any other. I would put his opinion on the level of a Hearthstone dev’s, because he is an extremely experienced card game player and designer who has been a paid consultant for many game design companies like Blizzard.
This statement just solidifies that you should just be… autosquelch’d and ignored, honestly.
Kibler is hardly one that complaints, ever if he’s facing a deck that has a advantage over his but everytime he’s actually becomes frustrated over something in-game, that thing gets nerfed.
Writing his opinion and experience on the matter regarding Caverns Below as just another random gamer just shows that you’re biased.
That doesn’t mean it gets nerfed because HE complained. It just means that he complained about something that either needed a balance adjustment or a zillion other people were complaining about. Kibler’s a good player. His opinion has merit. But he’s not the be all end all of HS.
Random? No. But his opinion is no more valuable than that of many many others who made the same complaints. He just has a bigger megaphone than others. Oh, and his opinion on how to adjust Cavern’s Below was misguided, since it only addressed the card’s strength against Control Decks and not it’s weakness to Aggro Decks. The reason QR died out was not because the matchup vs Control was less favorable, it was because the matchup vs Aggro was even more unfavorable and the overall win rate went way down.