Paint by numbers

Community Discussion
1

Hey players,

I don’t normally engage with the HS community because it has the unfortunate reputation of being the “Scream abuse first, think things through after” kind of place, but I just wanted to pose a quick question.

Has anybody else noticed that playing/playing against any of the really simple decks like Face Hunter, Treant Druid or Mech Paladin is sort of like completing a paint by numbers activity?

The structure of every match is the same. You have only one single win condition: either “Play minions, go face” or “Play minions, buff minions, go face”. Either you draw enough agro or you don’t. If you didn’t draw the right cards, you run out of steam and just straight up lose by early-mid game. If you did draw right cards, there’s only one way to play them.

Compare this to playing a control (or even midrange value decks). You’re constantly working with the cards you drew to come up with the most likely strategy to win, and games can play out remarkably differently every time (unless you get flattened by some moron’s leper gnome by turn six). Your plan is changeable, you deal with the situation as it unfolds.

This is totally unlike most agro decks, especially the three main offenders mentioned earlier. They’re not just easy, introductory decks that cater to the less strategically-minded player, they’re like a different game entirely. The sort of game you might offer a toddler in the waiting room of your GP. Watch the baby push a square through a square hole.

Playing against these decks is also very boring; you either draw the right defensive cards and hold them, or you don’t draw the right cards and you lose. Granted you could say that about any card game but it’s a gross over-simplification - except in this case! There really is no plan B for these decks; they can’t adapt into new strategies. They just. Go. Face. With one or two dead obvious trades in between. Not only does this lower the barrier of entry for legendary considerably (seriously, it’s dead easy for even children to climb the ladder), but it caters to a mode of thought that’s really killing the excitement of the strategy game for me.

TL;DR
If you play one of these incredibly simple-to-use decks (face hunter, treant druid, mech paladin), seeing the VICTORY! screen flash up at the end really only means is that you’ve successfully filled in a paint by numbers drawing. You shoved a square through a square hole. That should not advanced your rank on a ladder that is supposed to separate the skilled from the simple-minded. Victory has never been more unfulfilling; it’s just a roll of the dice.

I’m not saying they’re overpowered or that all games should be control. All I’m saying is that something this simple and boring to both play and watch is not healthy for the game. It’s certainly not healthy for my sanity.

I’m sure other people have brought this up on the forums but I want to see what the current reaction is.

1 Like
2

Rock, scissors, paper.

  1. If more players are using aggro, more players will then use mid range to counter.
  2. This will then bring more control players to counter mid range.
  3. This will then cause more players to play aggro to counter control.
    This will then trigger step 1 and repeat.

The popularity of the deck type (aggro, mid range or control) changes whenever a particular deck type appears too often, because people start to play different deck types to counter the popular deck type. And when a particular deck wins too often, the devs nerf it (sometimes).

So yeah, that is really all there is to it.

3

Yeah, I understand that much. You ignored the bulk of my point though; the agro decks are extremely easy to use and have only one way to play and play against. The concept of a “complicated” (relative to HS mechanics) agro/face deck is something I can’t really imagine, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Surely a version of the game that had more strategic and involved agro games would be more fun?

4

I know a guy who use to say that EXACT same thing. Except he calls it the 1 2 3 RNG.

Every deck spills out the same way with the same cards each and every game. They are always there.

Zilliax
Faceless Corruptor
Shield of Galakrond

Its almost if the game IS EXACTLY like a paint by numbers work of art. The AI is saying place your paint here and here. Stay with in the lines. Great job! You Won!

Galakrond Rogue. Get out my brushes and and paints and now Find Worthy Opponent (my canvas)

Play my sap or Backstab or Eviscerate, whatever brushes I put in my deck. Now drop Evil Miscreants get my lackeys. Now play Shield Of Galakrond or Maniac invoke Galakrond. Now play King ToggleWaggle and Shadowstep…

Same with Priest, Paladin, Hunter, Warlock any and every netdeck in Hearthstone. Just follow the paint by numbers! Do your rock paper scissors matchup and complete the game!

All people are doing is just clicking through the automated sequence of play to the predetermined outcome.

5

I have said that mech Paladin is boring to play. There are no cards that are viable options to replace the standard set up. The deck has a low skill ceiling so it performs poorly the more you rank up as a result. You’re better off building a budget aggro deck that could have more options and potential.

I also feel that giving more classes more options creates a healthier meta, but blizzard disagrees

6

Watching my last game run itself while I do other things and completing the daily vs a Priest.

Drops Light Warden :slight_smile:
Drops Tol’ver :slight_smile:
Drops Injured Blademaster casts Circle of Healing :slight_smile:

Game was over by turn 5 as I didn’t play any cards. But I love watching the drop the same every game.

The game vs Warlock was
Drop Flame Imp
Drop VoidWalker
Drop Dragonblight
Drop Fiendish Rites
Drop Shield of Galakrond

Dig I try to counter with play 3 games as X class? Nah, too boring. Just let it be done get the 60 gold and buy pack.

7

Next Match vs Warlock

Flame Imp
Beaming Sidekick
Knife Juggler and VoidWalker
Grim Rally
Kronx Dragonhoof
Faceless Corruptor

Nope, I am not playing a Rock deck that will beat this Scissors (aggro). Guess scissors wins.

8

Both of the decks that recently cucked you are exactly what I’m talking about - I just consider zoo lock and agro combo priest to be mildly less scummy than Face Hunter, which is as far as you can go in terms of simplicity.

9

“If you play something I don’t like to play, or play against, you’re an idiot and deserve to die in a fire.”

That about sum it up?

This little rant is just a variation of that golden oldie, “Your deck is a mindless pile of crap that plays itself, my deck is a paragon of precision, decision, and skill.”

There’s a reason there are nine heroes and not three.

And, really - “cucked”? That’s just below “gay” as a way of labeling yourself as a 12-year-old-in-spirit-man-child.

2 Likes
11

Scissors cuts paper, paper wraps rock, rock destroys scissors.

That’s just how the game is designed. It’s hard to give a variation for scissors to be able to cut paper, yet also wrap itself around rock - thus winning all. Just as it is difficult for paper to be able to destroy scissors too.

Likewise, this is just how a deck is meant to counter or be countered in such a game. Nothing too fanciful there indeed so you might think it’s mindless aggro, but if you think about it, having a control aggro doesn’t work. Just like a mid-range control doesn’t work either.

To sum things up broadly, you either give up defence and tricks just to go full offensive, or you give up offensive and deploy tricks and defensive.

12

Maybe the concept of agro decks in a card game that is supposed to be about long-term scheming just doesn’t belong at all? There must be some innovation to be made here… So many people are dissatisfied, I feel it’s worth talking about.

13

You must understand that aggro decks are not the top tier decks with like 70% win rate. No, aggro decks are far from even 60% win rate.

That is why they win some, and lose some, and no one is upset when they bump into aggro decks.

If however, aggro wins most games, then that is when the players complain, and hopefully, the devs look into it. Like when pirate aggro won way too many games in December 2019, then the weapon was nerfed.

14

Metastats would seem to suggest something different; it’s a mix of decks at the top right now. I would include the link but that’s not allowed apparently.

15

Here is a snapshot of the stats over 4 days. From the devs themselves.

Also, note that they did mention that the stats are balanced for now, just that they are showing 4 days of meta for comparison only.

You can click and read it.

16

God that really does give me some hope… with any luck they continue doing posts like that fairly regularly, that’d be good to keep up with

1 Like
17

Meh it doesn’t change the paint by numbers mechanic of it. Played vs a SideQuest Reborn Paladin.

The Match was going swimmingly in my favor until Turn 6 where the Paladin drops

Zilliax. With Micro Mummy that’s extra heal so +8 back before I can remove Zilliax.

Now Throw in Ancestral Guardians back to back and use Hero Power to make copies of the Lifestealing. Now drop the on cue Mecha DR Dragon. My Art Exhibit Master Piece is complete. Except it was all paint by number.

Rock meets Scissors again.

18

Look, I am unhappy with Secret Mage because I think it is paint the number and high wins. So I contribute to its win rate, so that hopefully blizzard sees the high win rate and nerfs it.

Are you doing your part to make the meta balanced too?

19

Yep. Zilliax and the 1 2 3 RNG makes the game an obvious paint by numbers game.

Just played vs a Paladin.

Paladin Coins and plays Sir Finley. What a shocker and picks summon 2 Silvers for Hero power. Since I didn’t have a 1 drop the paly can be bold and play Brazen Zealot for when he summons 2 silvers next turn.

The board and game is even for 4 turns and is still is a toss up even though the Paly put Blessing go the Kings on turn 4 on Finley (shocker).

Turn 5. Turn 5 I can the turning point of all games. Here is where Aggro is going to win or lose. Paly drops what?

Correct. Zilliax. Once again on cue. Paly gets 6 health off of Zilliax and fall behind in the race to face. Still all hope isn’t lost and I can maybe sneak in the win on the 7 as he can’t do 10 dmg, only 6 on his next turn.

Ah, but yes, the True Silver Champion. A card thats typically in the top ten off the deck.

So you see, I am with the idea of game balance or making it one of strategy vs lets just go through the motions each and every match.

20

It’s easy to play such decks but the win rate is low, or at least moderately balanced. So no issues.

21

When your decimating a Rogue. Your opponent is down to 12 health and they drop
Sn!p Snap the automatic early game minion and build it up to a 4/6 on turn 6.

It becomes my turn and thinking okay. Even it I can take out SN!P SNAP, it still makes 1/1 mechs so I know my has Zilliax. But not from the mech they just dropped.

I know my opponent has Zilliax because we are 11 cards off the top of the deck and we’re in the Zilliax zone of when do I want to play old Zilly? Turn 5 6 7 or 8? This is what the game does. Its how its designed to work.

I couldn’t do anything about 4/6 SN!P SNAP anyways so yep turn 7. They was the 100 guaranteed minion…

ZILLIAX! My opponent gains 7 heath and goes from 9 to 16. Well I can’t take out that minion now but not before another 7 health so up to 23 and there is no way I am going to out value my opponent from here.

So going back to the other forum hot topic, “The game is rigged, here is how you beat it”.

Exactly. You know the game is designed to play out the cards the same way every game. You know the winning cards that swing the game will be there on cue.

Just a matter if you have the rock to paper deck. Or the counter pattern to their pattern deck.

Then go up against a Broken Token Druid deck.

Coin play 2 Treants.
Use Bees to attack low level minion for an instant flooding of the board.
Scissors OWNS the board! Rock deck? Do you have a board sweep? Sorry I am a paper deck. I cant sweep the board on turn 3 5 and 7 to beat broken token Druid. Its already over.

Next turn Broken Token plays its other early game paint by number card. Summon two dryads with Life Steal and cast Power of the Wild. Theres the 100% chance to have Buffy Buffy card number one. See what happeens next turn (game already over, just want to see if I can guess the cards with 100% accuracy.

Animal Roar! Yes I can. And another Vincent Van Gogh Master Piece is complete.