Objection should be Core

Multiplayer Discussion
42

I can testify to this. I have been on Forums since the original Forums, and
mage gets complained about no matter what style it has.
The only times players don’t complain about it is when it is tier 4 or worse.
Even then you see threads.
Priest gets treated similarly, but Priest doesn’t come close to the level of anger that Mage and mage threads create.
Many players here claim they are impartial, but their replies and threads speak differently.

Lost yesterday to a Hunter running spell damage and burn from hand.
When mage had the same exact thing?
It was called too good and uninteractive until it was nerfed.
And Secret mage is no different. It has gotten the same treatment.
But Secret Hunter is fine, and so is Rogue and Paladin.

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43

Maybe because Hunter can’t freeze the enemy board 4-5 turns in a row and they have engage with the other half of the game, just a thought though.

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44

I have never seen a burn mage freeze the board. I think you are confusing two decks, perhaps?

45

I like Objection, but I would way rather see spell damage and burn come back to Standard mage.
Maybe keep CS though. I love that card:)

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46

With all respect.

No.

I’m understand why some people think it should but sincerely the card is just too strong on a individual level.

It isn’t a card i’m would say to never get in the core but we had almost 2 years of it and people deserve a time without it.

Also objection is what i’m call as a timeless card.

It means that this card never gonna get powercrept because it scales with the power of what it is negating.
Meaning that it is wild powerlevel material.

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47

Objection does seem powerful for core right now, but the OP is not wrong in saying that Standard mage secrets are really weak for the price point.

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48

This is why we never pay 3 mana for then.

It is always play it to activate something and stuff like that.

49

Well, I think that mage no longer has anything for reduction in standard, other than the neutral Anonymous Informant, (which other secret classes use far better) as Kabal Lackey is in wild,
(and even it was nerfed) and so is Ancient Mysteries.
So unless the secret is being played by RNG, then it has to be played for full price. Which is terrible.
And;
Depending on a dice roll to give you defense from what other classes have in standard is ridiculously bad.

50

You don’t need reduction.

You Just get some extra bang for your buck.

Be it a 3/3 or discount another card in your hand and secret mage was in standard for a decent time so it is probably time for it to get out of the meta again anyway.

With that said i’m kinda confident in elemental mage in standard right now while in wild i’m can see It finally taking of.

It is just too much random damage to a point where it isn’t even funny.

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51

you do when the secrets they give mage are no good.
Counterspell is powerful. So is Objection.
The rest are bad comparatively, and no way they are worth three mana full price.
But, I agree that something different would be fun, and I hope you are right, that Elemental mage is powerful enough for at least tier 3 and sticks around for awhile.

52

Don’t bother being logical with Mal, you are just baiting the troll.

53

I think the dev team is very wary (and probably weary as well) of secret mage variants being playable in standard. In wild, secret mage has been around since ever, and I think there is a general hatred of the archetype.

This is evidenced by the fact that latest secrets they printed for mage are nearly strictly WORSE than effectively the same secrets for hunter. Thats astounding when you think of it. Hunter secrets cost 1 less mana (which is a HUGE deal for a low cost spell like secrets) AND they are more powerful (when comparing the latest ones.)

Comparison 1
https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/cards/102149-summoning-ward
vs
https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/cards/72340-emergency-maneuvers

The mage secret requires the minion you want to copy TO BE ALIVE the next turn, which is a nearly impossible feat in todays heartstone without something like STEALTH and DIVINE SHIELD, and even then there is a good chance your minion won’t stay alive.

Emergency Maneuvers is AT LEAST 2x as good if not 3-4x as good. It’s actually playable and a very strong secret when you have one very high value minion on the board.

Comparison 2
Epic · Spell · Murder at Castle Nathria · Secret: After an enemy minion attacks your hero, summon a copy of it to attack the enemy hero.
vs
Rare · Spell · Core · Secret: When an enemy attacks your hero, summon a 3-Cost minion as the new target.

Wandering monster is not even that strong a secret, but its probably 2x as strong as Vengeful Visage, because it can act as a 1-time damage shield from a very big minion and can save you against lethal. Vengeful Visage is at best a VERY WEAK tempo play and in reality, nearly everytime its played it translates to a 1/1 or 3/2 (at best) hitting your opponents face once before being wiped.

Comment

Epic · Spell · Showdown in the Badlands · Secret: When the enemy plays a card on the turn that it entered their hand, get a copy that costs (0).

This secret is just SO terrible I don’t have words to describe it. There is no way to play this secret and EXPECT some kind of outcome. Generally you will get a random zero cost card, and in NEARLY every case this card will be useless or NEARLY useless. Not only that there is a very high chance this secret will trigger when you have 9 cards in your hand, burning (possibly) a VERY useful card from your deck.

If this card cost 0 mana, and was included in your hand for free at the start of the game, I don’t think this card would be worth playing. IT IS SO BAD. I’ve never seen a worse secret.

The best use of this secret is to use it and hope you confuse your opponent into checking for an Objection or counter-spell and thereby lose some tempo. THERE is no other good use for this secret, it’s actively a BAD card when you play it.

5 Likes
54

Exactly. This 100%. The secrets they have printed for mage are awful by comparison, and not worth 3 mana in any scenario.
And yeah, they crippled secret mage in wild, leaving only time warp mage really capable of laddering.
Honestly? I think players hate Quest mage more than they do Secrets.
But, I have yet to see the mage deck that wins at all, that players don’t complain about, and I have been here for all of them.

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55

Whether or not Objection is OP, people are sick of playing around it and that’s a valid enough reason to rotate it out.

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56

So, does that mean We can look forward to a new mage archetype or deck, if Secrets are going away? I sure hope so.
The roulette wheel thing is just boring and weak to me.

57

If that was a valid reason for things to rotate then Shadow Step wouldnt be in the core set after 10years.

By all means make the rules you want, just make sure to include everyone and not just the black sheep.

And this comes from a player that favors combo decks and has abused Shadow Step none stop, i just find it odd that other high power cards get nuked from orbit .

Wierd coincidence.

3 Likes
58

… to you, most people love casino.

that’s entirely a personal opinion. For the vast majority, casino is fun.

Time to find a new class bub. If you want to kill enemy hero with burn, play hunter.

59

Ahem, the classic (original) Freeze Mage?

Thats’ what even Ben Brode would consider ‘not fun’ and refrain from printing it (this also includes things that mess up with the opponent’s hand and so on, btw).

It’s not about whether cards like Theotar or the subject are competitive, performing strongly or not: if they were considered not fun to play against, they wouldn’t be printed once upon a time. Then it all changed…

Nope, it seems more about the aspect described above.

Yep, that’s exactly the logic that should drive the game design.

Haven’t really played Wild, but back in the day (think before the Year of the Mammoth), I’d find this kind of playstyle annoying, although generally not too strong, and fit mostly for trolls and clowns: maybe you’d not win many games with it, but you might spoil one or two for somebody with you ‘creative’ approach to deckbuilding.

Funny, he used to be good even as a 6-6.

PS Nowadays, apparently, even a 4-mana 7-7 would be considered too weak.

60

Fair enough. We haven’t seen that deck in a really long time:)
I stand corrected, Sir.

61

While I haven’t always agreed with you on a number of points, I thought you were also an old-timer, sighing that the game isn’t what it used to be (yep, truly — it’s not just the typical ‘the grass was greener’ grumbling) and remembering the days when you, too, played Standard. :grinning: That’d make two of us.

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