I’ve come to realize that among Mage’s secrets Objection is the only one actually worth 3 mana. Mage has been outclassed on the secret department by Hunter.
Evident by comparing Summoning Ward to Hidden Meaning, the latter is far stronger because it can attack immediately therefore applying more pressure for less mana.
Considering that Mage doesn’t have great ways to cheat secrets in standard, Objection was only utilized through discover while also paying full price for it. Losing this will make the class lose a very strong pillar and Secret Mage as a deck will be unable to be a thing in the future.
Mage’s secrets are simply too weak. Azerite vain, summoning ward, explosive runes, the only one still capable of being a 3 mana worth secret is counterspell but it’s barely holding onto that title.
People are simply overreacting about it not because it’s too strong, but because the other secrets are too weak. I really wish this would be core so that secret mage would continue being a thing, without it I can’t imagine Mage having a secret deck for a long time.
Counterpoint, Objection should not be Core. Mage’s ability to generate essentially infinite spells means you can get multiple Objections, and the tempo loss of playing it for 3 mana (2 from Infinitize) is worth deleting opponents’ minions one-by-one and forcing them to play suboptimally.
Because you have infinite spell generation. Also,
The number of times this card has essentially ended the game on the spot is obnoxious. Anonymous Informant also lets you cheat it out secrets, as does Infinitize the Maxitude and Orion.
Objection single-handedly makes basically every Secret substantially stronger. Because when that pink icon pops up, you have to stop and think, “What if that’s Objection?” Sketchy Stranger, Orion and Shadowjeweler Hanar were strong solely because of Objection.
Mage Secrets are fine. Summoning Ward is good and promotes critical thinking on both sides of the board. Azerite Vein punishes Quickdraw and topdecking, and lets you mana cheat.
Quickdraw cards cost 1-3 mana, so it’s never mana cheat. That secret is so useless I don’t even think about it when dodging secrets. Most of the time, what was good for my situation doesn’t help enemy situation, as it’s mirror opposite
This card was good before the mini-set, now it requires activation with the potential miss by hitting Azerite Vain or/and Summoning Ward. A little further down you go about explaining that these Secrets are in someway good but I am here to say they are not and with Objection leaving you need not play around anything.
The Vain even if it triggers can potentially be a card useless to Mage and Summoning Ward is a slower more expensive version of Hidden Meaning.
And that was the pillar that kept Secret Mage “alive”. Without it the rest of the secrets are all very subpar for 3 mana. It’s fair to assume that no Secret Mage deck will be made unless we get new Secret support, but until then when Mage plays a Secret it will be very easy to play around, while Mage will need to waste substantial amounts of mana to play them of discover.
Basically, without Objection all secrets lost their usefulness.
I get your point but their effect is definitely not worth 3 mana and you are not required to play around them. Vain let them get it, whatever, and Summoning Ward you’ll probably need to get back on board either way so just play your turn normally.
I would be okay if it stayed in standard but it should probably go for one good reason. It overly punishes new and inexperienced players who don’t understand how to play around such cards. Watching their best and powerful/favorite card get countered and not realizing it or good enough to play around that is bad for the game in general. It makes those players quit playing from that point and they want retention not players quitting before they even get started. There’s barely any competitive scene so new players coming in is a big deal.
Considering the vast amount of outlandish “bs effects” that have been printed this last year I think categorizing Objection on this is a bit unfair.
Brann, Reno, Astalor, Jailer etc etc. have made people quit the game because they didn’t like the effect. If anything I believe Objection is a learning point for a new player to become immediately accustomed to the disruption that Secrets provide.
It doesn’t have the same psychological impact on a new player as when objection just stops them from playing their “cool” cards. Losing to something the opponent played that defeated that player more often makes them want those cards and will encourage them to pay to get them. thus when they have them and something like Objection counters it they feel very bad about it.
Look i have no issue with the card but from a purely psychological perspective that’s how it effects new players. Even experienced players feel like this and they know it’s coming.
That deck is a classic example of teaching you how to play the board. If you do anything besides trade away or spell/minion remove that deck you are just playing badly. It’s an easy deck to beat but players just simply never learn or play a deck that is far too greedy. I mean for pete sake that deck plays Stormwind Champion and nobody plays that in Arena.
See that’s the influence that a 3 mana secret should have.
After Objection leaves I will feel more nervous about playing around Hunter secrets than Mage’s because without Objection the road is clear. Occasional Counterspell is not enough to scare me from playing my turn so the usefulness of Mage secrets will be at an all-time low.
Consider this:
Mage lacks pressure therefore even if Explosive Runes kills my minion I won’t fall to far behind so Idc for it, Azerite Vain is a very easy going secret I can just be mindful of it, Summoning Ward just play my turn normally what big minion does Mage have that if they double it I will be scared, and even if they do it it won’t attack for a turn, as for Counterspell it requires finesse but it’s no ordeal anymore. And of course Ice Barrier which …
Its just that Objection is the pillar that’s why I think it should stay. Without “what if it’s objection” there is no need to be scared of Mage secrets.
All I know is that its removal won’t only affect a card but 5 other Secrets as well.
Add to that the new Secret discover card and you have 6 cards “nerfed” because of a card leaving, and it’s quite a serious nerf if you ask me.
I don’t necessarily know that it needs to stay, but I agree with the Op that the mage secrets that are left are mostly not worth three mana.
Hunter get sot play secrets passively that are every bit as good as what mage has left, imo.
I can confidently say that even if Summoning Ward was 2 mana it would still see no play in Mage, simply because it is not a Mage Secret!
What big minion are you trying to summon twice except Norgannon which has innate charge. The other Secrets are bad as well but anyone trying to claim that Summoning Ward is good, clearly has never played Mage … or plays Mage once in a while … or remembers losing that one game to it out of 100.
I agree. Unless you are purposely running 6/6’s for secret mage and you hit those.
And even that seems weak, when you cannot cheat out secrets anymore with class cards.
Exactly it seems weak because it is.
I had made a thread near when it was released saying the minion should be able to attack immediately to justify the Spell costing 3.
That is because it’s conditional first of all, if the opponent knows of your Secret they can remove your big minion and leave a 1/1 to get summoned, and here comes the fun part, it can’t even attack the first turn it summons.
