Honestly if i have someone play the Kiljadean against me i’m happy. It means they are desperate and are fishing for a way to win the game against me. It’s not going to help but hey go ahead and try.
Lets be real about all of this though. DH is only a deck forcing interesting decks out of the meta. It shouldn’t exist because it warps the way players build decks. What we REALLY need to be looking at is the Starcraft set still lingering around being the real meta tyrant.
It is infinite because it can go past 10 cards…
Your argument is not even serious. It doesnt always go past 10 cards but the potential to do so is still there!!
Elysiana is fine because it is finite. Elysiana is fine because it gives proactive direction that you choose.
Kil’Jaeden is not because it is LITERALLY infinite. Fatigue adds up fast. Even just 3 turns of fatigue is 6 damage.
The card is a terrible design because it punishes any other slow deck that tries to not run it. Basically making it a mandatory inclusion just for the sake of canceling out your opponent’s Kil’Jaeden. That is terrible design. It takes more from the game than it adds.
It doesnt even matter if its good or not because people only run it to avoid fatigue and not lose when they run out of stuff.
You cant even say people dont run it to avoid fatigue… i have rarely seen this card come down unless there are 5 cards or fewer remaining in my opponent’s deck. It is just there to avoid losing a game.
I have seen it go past 10 several times.
Unconditional infinite deck is not okay.
If i wanted to go pseudo-infinite, not even literal infinite, in this meta with burgle rogue id have to:
Play Maestra- play the hero card-play academic espionage-shadowstep something- play tess- step tess- hope tess shadowsteps herself when i run out of steps.
So im spending 35-50 mana to get random cards that dont get boosted 2/2 every turn and im not even guaranteed to actually be infinite.
Dead mans hand requires resource management, setting up a hand worth copying, reducing the chances of a bad top deck and then maintaining enough resources to make future copies still decent. That deck requires a ton of thought and finesse to maintain infinite especially under constant pressure to use your resources.
Meanwhile Kil’Jaeden for 7 mana and no thinking… plop… infinite.
If you cant see why that is a design issue then you are hopeless
It can but it doesn’t. Why is it still a problem?
It isnt tech anymore when slow decks run it because they know other slow decks have it. So what? Your running Kil’Jaeden as tech against Kil’Jaeden at that point? That is ridiculous just delete the card at that point.
Any card over 5 mana would suck to have against aggro in your opening hand… not that interesting
Proof that you don’t understand the card.
Playing Kil’jaeden is the single riskiest move in any deck that includes it.
Proof that i know ceaseless expanse is in every Kil’Jaeden deck…
Leech Dk or DH dont care when they have 50+ hp dropping a 7 mana card isnt as risky anymore
Especially if you are in a control mirror where you and your opponent hit each other with wet noodles for half the game
It does goe past 10 cards sometimes.
Just the potential to go infinite unconditionally is a design space problem.
If it “never” goes past 10 cards then just make it shuffle 10 cards??? Why does it need to be infinite if that “never” happens?! XD
Why is it a problem that i want it to be changed to be finite if, like you said, infinite is basically the same as replacing your deck with 10 cards
Uh expensive cards are always a gamble to place in a deck because you might face an aggro deck and it’s useless. Otherwise we would just place all 5+ cost cards in our decks and that’s it. Very interesting.
The fact that you don’t like the card is irrelevant. If you are that opposed to it stop playing the game in protest. Otherwise suck it up and deal with it.
You are the one who tried to act like Kil’Jaeden costing more than 5 was some kind of unique drawback that other legendaries dont have dude
Uh you are the one saying that cost means nothing. “Dude”
Im opposed to your terrible takes more than anything xD
Cost does mean something…thats why infinite for 7 mana and 1 card is a design problem.
Did you not read anything i wrote about how resource/mana intensive it is for other decks to go infinite or pseudo-infinite??
The fact that there is no drawback and it is unconditional is a design issue.
Other cards that are expensive dont have infinite effects that delete fatigue from the game on a decent body for the mana cost…
I agree it’s a risk. I’ll play it in maybe 10% of my games. Usually I have the win locked up regardless if I play it or not. The only games where it saved me in the wild meta is against Plague DK or Mil Druid. It’s honestly kinda depressing when I draw it early and have to hold it the entire game knowing I could be playing another 7 mana card instead of wasting a spot in my hand.
These are some of the things nobody understands if they don’t play the card. People like to imagine it’s used in every game as a win condition.
My original deck included KJ, but he does not count? The fact that I planned to overcome you if it went the distance is somehow “unfair” or “bad design” to you?
This right here is the tell that you are salty about losing, not about this specific card. I do not know if anyone has explained this to you, but the game goes until a hero explodes, so no one has won anything prior to that explosion.
I am glad we agree. I suspect the salt we see about it is low rank players who get frustrated when they see low health and low cards and believe they have won the game, but end up losing because the opponent was already planning for the end.
I have seen the buff get to 30/30 a turn, but that was only because I was messing with my opponent to see how long they would play before they conceded to my starships and armor.
But in all honesty, I agree with you. It rarely goes more than a couple turns before the game ends.
It also sits in hand useless much more frequentlyt than I use it.
The real world answer is all of them, but most of you dont actually live there, so do what you will.
Thanx
I actually win vs the card more than i lose to it.
My issue with it is breaks the fundamental rules of the game. I dont care if i win or lose, i care that the effect is broken. That it should not exist as unconditional infinite(even if its just potential infinite) because it is lazy and bad design. Sure it’s thematically cool, but it has no place in the game. Any other deck that goes infinite or pseudo-infinite requires set-up, thought, resources, more mana and leaves room for counterplay.
Kil’Jaeden just leads to a zero-sum game where every slow deck runs it to counter itself xD
I dont want to pull rank on you, but i assure you mine is much higher than you think xD
And i know JacktR is a top1000 player at the least assuming that statement was targeted at him
It’s honestly crazy I’m defending this card considering the goal of my deck is to burn my opponents cards.
I just don’t see the problem with someone trying to prevent getting milled into fatigue. I’d be a hypocrite if I included it in my deck but argued that it wasn’t fair to my play style. I just see it as part of the meta and it’s avaliable for anyone to use. If it happens to tech against your deck then tough luck. Better find a way to burn it, steal it, or sap it if you see it standing in your way. I don’t see it going away anytime soon and in wild it’s definitely not going away.
Playing kil jaden isnt necessarily a win… what it does do is extend the game out past the point where it should have ended by removing fatigue and providing a random card to play every turn. I think removing the punishment for exhausting your deck (minus kil jaden) and giving you a free scaling card to play every turn is poor design. If we’re going to break the original fundamental design of the game why stop there… Like I said earlier why not give everyone the opportunity to put 100 cards in their deck or 30 of the same legendary card. The game already has to endure the breaking of the 10 mana cap first in druid with guff and then eventually its spread to warrior and now shaman can easily get 15+ mana in a game. Lets go ahead and make dungar 1 mana and let people mana cheat out their entire deck at the start of the game. Kil jaden has been a trend in the wrong direction in my opinion.
Who cares about losing… what it does do is make ‘control’ vs. ‘control’ games an abysmal experience. I enjoyed slower decks from time to time but that experience is utterly abysmal now thanks to the introduction of kil jaden. I dont know how many control vs control games you’ve played but many of them go to fatigue… At that point the player that practiced the best resource management (fatigue managing) usually ended up winning but now a lot of games come down to demon RNG. They’ve already essentially kneecapped midrange decks and turned them into mana cheat decks where you have to cheat out your entire deck by turn 6… and they’re bringing the same insufferable design changes to control decks by forcing demon RNG on everyone… as if the discover RNG wasn’t already enough.
They’re slowly morphing all archetypes into some exaggerated monster of their former selves… THe only thing left to do is create some aggro deck thats able to push out a 30/30 with charge on turn 1 to complete the sweep. But I’d imagine you’d argue that’s ‘good design’ and ‘fair’ too.
Replace Midrange with combo. Midrange is a hybrid archetype - Control/aggro.
The archetypal pyramid is Aggro > Combo > Control > Aggro
Says who?
In a world where hand size, mana crystals, health pool, deck size, and basically everything else are not hard rules anymore, you are very hard pressed to convince anyone that there are any inviolate rules in this game anymore.
I might have agreed with you before things like Renathal, Guff, Vampiric Blood, and the like, but with all the ways you can already break basically all the rules, what is one more?
Then there is no problem and you should move on.
If I distill your long post down to a single sentence, I would just say that you do not like this game anymore.
The ship sailed long ago and all the things you are arguing sound a great deal like the kids need to get off your lawn.
kiljaeden counters steamcleaner that thing is broken in wild any kazakus decks has to have kiljaeden in case my opponent plays steam cleaner
You really are clueless.
Steamcleaner? Broken???
You have reached new heights of stupidity, even by your standards, with that claim, Boreass.