I don’t care about it being thematically accurate, the demons you shuffle should be capped. You shouldn’t be able to go infinite with a single card. Make it shuffle 10 demons or something…let them choose the 10 demons that’s fine with me! Infinite for one card is not reasonable; it doesnt matter if it’s strong or not it just should not exist as an effect.
2 Likes
This is the thing.
After a certain number It might as well be infinite because the number of cases It makes a diference is pointless.
It’s predecessor elisiana many times was already enough to make games Go to the turn cap and she isn’t infinite.
3 Likes
You misunderstand the card. It does not shuffle anything into the deck. It replaces your deck with a portal. The portal spits out a random demon every draw. The portal actually only contains 30 demons, but at the start of every turn, the portal is refreshed with 30 new demons with +2/+2 stats that stack every turn.
First of all, why not? Second of all, there are plenty of cards that play into the fatigue archetype. This just does it in a different way.
Again, that’s not how the card was intended.
So go through 10 different discover sequences? On a 75 second turn timer? That’s absurd.
Why not? Just because you personally don’t like losing to it?
Of course it matters if it’s strong. Card strength and deck power should be the primary driving force for any card adjustments.
Again… why not?
4 Likes
With all the BS going on is Kil jaeden REALLY the issue? Its value in a game where you can just get smacked by armor dh for 400 damage at any point they feel like it. Value is hardly ever a factor. And its sad
4 Likes
If you wanna rely on good, old mill strategy (which is the only one actually hating the existence of K’J, all the other ones just kinda dislike it), you need to equip yourself with anti-Kj kit.
Anti-KJ kit includes:
- 2x Dirty rat (not very hard to fish one out, is it? You know what kind of a tempo loss K’J is, so you can estimate when it could probably come down and when their hand contains the least amount of minions, and you have 2x chances, at least, to hit it),
- Warrior’s legendary taunt that eats minions if you’re running warrior,
- any class can run 2x a minion that returns your minion to your hand so that you can attempt those anti-KJ fishing expeditions multiple times
It’s not like your deck requires a win con or something, your win con is literally eating their K’J from their hand or deck, so think along those lines
I don’t think a great mill deck can be made, yet, but it looks like they’re not giving up on the archetype - they have printed mill cards for 3 expansions in a row now, starting with Pro gamer
2 Likes
Not start of turn, but actually any time the deck changes. Every draw, every add a card to it, anything that would affect the deck it generates a new stack of 30 demons.
1 Like
Gotcha. Thanks. I’m not sure about every draw, though. I seem to recall reading that you could conceivably draw the entire portal dry… until the refresh is triggered.
And I’m definitely sure the +2/+2 is only once per turn. I think it’s start of turn, not end of turn.
2 Likes
I don’t think there’s a way to overdraw 30 cards in a single instance to the point of fatiguing out. Even something like stacked octosari deathrattles won’t do it, at minimum after every 8 it would reset. The rogue spell from boomsday would just reset it after your hand is full, again at minimum. I’m not sure there’s a functional difference.
The stat upgrade is start of turn, yes.
1 Like
You’re probably right. Maybe it was just a hypothetical injected into the discussion back when the card was first released.
That’s exactly how it works. Go look on youtube. there are clips where people play steamcleaner after the portal is up. It mills 30 demons and the portal goes dry. Then the next turn it refreshes and more demons start popping out again.
2 Likes
Because Fizzle got nerfed for being pseudo infinite.
1 Like
Because it removes the idea of fatigue and at some point makes game about “who gets better demons from infinite portal”
2 Likes
This is a great card, actually.
I think it is wonderful if you want to play a control deck, but fatigue as a win condition makes for some of the least interesting game play possible.
This card deters those decks effectively and is healthy for the meta.
Put a win con or three in your deck and this is not a problem any more.
That to not say that wild now has a Mill combo deck.
Mill druid can OTK anyone at 7 mana by making you draw infinite cards by using infinite naturalizes.
1 Like
So? The design intent behind Fizzle was not to go infinite. It was an opportunity that players discovered. KJ, on the other hand, is specifically designed to eliminate fatigue. The developers wanted it to work this way.
For the player using KJ, yes it does. That’s the design intent.
In a KJ vs KJ matchup, yes. Or sometimes it’s just who gets him down first.
That’s been done before. Why is this iteration, or even any of the others, necessarily bad?
You’re just repeating “because”
When and how u could totally ignore it? Except Fizzle who was nerfed because of it
P.S. Oh, yes! Jade druid. Still had counter - 4/6 6 mana unit who destroys 1 mana cost cards
Fizzle wasn’t nerfed because it stopped fatigue, it was nerfed because it set up a full board clear, full board fill, and massive face damage every turn.
Kil’jaeden does none of that.
2 Likes
The first 5 draws are often VERY BAD, hence it’s extremely balanced, because even if it’s played so called optimally: the opponent often has a lot of mana and cards at that point to have a chance.
Basically if the opponent is actually a late game deck it’s not even that great. It’s mainly good against opponents who are not that good late game to begin with.
So your solution is … add 2 Dirty Rats and pray ?
Great.
2 Likes