I agree with you. You’re absolutely right. We take a hammer, a screwdriver and a dog. All the cards are disassembled for dust. Old maps of the classic " new " mode are great dust.
Why should I be forced to now only play my Classic Collection in a Format that I do not wish to play? I enjoy playing Ranked Standard. As do my friends and people I play against. I enjoy playing my Collection with the new Expansions as they release. I don’t want to be pushed into a format where all I can play is my Classic Cards and that is it.
At the risk of repeating myself for the 100th time…
Classic Card Packs were sold as being Evergreen - a permanent fixture in Standard Play.
10 Likes
A lot of players Assassin already have spent a lot of money, time and in-game resources to build an entire Golden Collection. I feel to compensate everyone fairly - a full dust refund would be a viable option as you suggest. If everyone’s Classic Set got upgraded to Golden these people would still be losing out on a big investment.
6 Likes
You can play in one mode of 3 modes. Why they do 3 mode is a fantastic mystery. I know how to trick Blizzard.
3 mode with old maps will be released soon. One week will pass and in the" new " classic mode, a meta will be formed with the same decks forever. We take all 240 cards and press 480 times to get magic dust from them. The addon comes out. Release the addon and collect 2 excellent decks in standard mode.
If I make my decks now for the Classic format, would I be able to use it right away when the format is released?
Collect Valira for the previously miracle deck. Leroy Jenkins is jumping out there!
I believe so. I don’t see why not.
I have put a post into the compensation thread, but thought it would be of interest here as we are discussing the rotation of Standard and the new Core Set.
A member of the forum suggested a partial dust refund as suitable compensation. I spent some more time digging around some facts and figures to see what the financial implications might be. Anyhow… my reply…
I don’t see how a partial dust refund is fair. As has been stated in numerous posts before - players invested in Classic Packs on the understanding they would be available in Standard Format forever. Blizzard has reneged on its original contract with consumers now taking them out of Standard (…except for those 88 cards that stay in Core).
I will try and illustrate why I feel a normal/partial dust refund is not an acceptable option:
I found on Hearthstone Wiki a meta study that was done looking at average drop rates of Rare, Epics and Legendary Cards from packs - and totalling the average dust value per pack. The study is on gamepedia if anyone is interested.
According to the below meta-study’s data tabulated under the “Golden cards” section, the average card pack has a [disenchanting] value of 102.71 [Arcane Dust]
Now if we look at the cost of packs. In the UK - the best value bundle is 60 packs for £59.99 - so about £1 per pack. (Note if you buy smaller bundles the cards become more expensive as would crafting costs). So using the meta studies results, 100 dust (rounded down for ease) = £1.00
One Golden Legendary cost me 3200 dust to craft. That is 32 Packs (equivalent of £32.00) assuming I DE all cards from those packs - to get enough dust to craft ONE Golden Legendary. ONE.
The Classic Set contains (I think):
32 Legendary
36 Epics (can craft 2 copies) = 72 cards
80 Rare (can craft 2 copies) = 160 cards
92 Common (can craft 2 copies) = 184 cards
(These numbers do not including those that went to Hall Of Fame).
Golden Classic Set Cost Breakdown (rough estimate!):
1 x Golden Legendary = 3200 to craft = 32 card packs = £32 per card
Golden Legendary Set = £32 x 32 cards = £1024.00
1 x Golden Epic = 1600 to craft = 16 card packs = £16 per card
Golden Epic Set = £16 x 72 (36 cards x 2 copies) = £1152
1 x Golden Rare = 800 to craft = 8 card packs = £8 per card
Golden Rare Set = £8 x 160 (80 cards x 2 copies) = £1280
1 x Golden Common = 400 to craft = 4 card packs = £4 per card
Golden Common Set = £4 x 184 (92 cards x 2 copies) = £736
Before I get jumped on and people say ‘but you didn’t have to craft every single card’, and ‘but you will have got some golden cards through opening packs’ and ‘you got packs for free from Tavern Brawls’ - I know. I also acknowledge those figures are based on a meta-study which goes back to 2016 so may not be as relevant today.
My point is: Hearthstone is/was expensive. I completed my Golden Set before duplication protection came in too - so I did craft a lot of Golden cards from scratch.
Let’s say I disenchant my Golden Collection at standard rates (i.e. not full dust refund value) which is what the option is currently once the changes happen.
Golden Legendary [1600 dust = 16 pack equivalent = £16]
32 Cards x £16 = £512. Loss of £512
Golden Epics [400 dust = 4 pack equivalent = £4]
36 (x 2 copies) = 72 Cards x £4 = £288. Loss of £864
Golden Rare [100 dust = 1 pack equivalent = £1]
80 (x 2 copies) = 160 Cards x £1 = £160. Loss of £1120
Golden Common [50 dust = 0.5 pack = £0.50]
92 (x 2 copies) = 184 Cards x £0.50) = £92. Loss of £644
Total Loss = £3140.
Now these figures aren’t exact I know. But you see where I am going?
Even if we take out the 88 cards that stay in Core - that is still a substantial loss of money.
- I bought and invested a lot of money into Classic Cards I was told would remain in play in Standard.
- I collected a complete Golden Set which likely cost me £1000s in terms of financial investment.
- Blizzard have now made my investment largely unplayable in Standard Format
- Blizzard are offering no compensation - and I am expected to just agree to losing what likely amounts to between £2000-£3000?
- Offering an alternative Format (Classic) is not a solution. I wish to use my Golden Cards as advertised, in Standard, alongside the Expansion sets as they are released, with friends who also play Standard.
- Offering a ‘free’ Core Set is great for new players - but everybody gets this. This therefore does not equate to compensation as some players suggest for a previous investment (as new players do not have a comparable financial investment).
I will be asking for a full dust refund on any of the Classic Set I invested in which are no longer available in the format for which they were marketed and sold.
No more. No less.
6 Likes
So you are complaining about not gaining advantage over other players by spending money? Most of these cards are unplayable garbage in the standard format. Please look at this situation realistically.
First, they sell the cards for money. Then, they give away the same cards to everyone. How do you not see it?
2 Likes
I see it as a benefit for everyone. The players who paid money will be refunded for the cards OUT OF STANDARD. Why are you so mad about the game being more fair?
Where did you see that?
1 Like
No - I am complaining about having a product I invested a lot of money into being made defunct in the format for which they are sold.
3 Likes
Show me where Blizzard have stated this and I will gladly stop posting on these forums. There are no refunds. Players can dust cards, but as illustrated - if you have spent a lot to build up a Golden Collection - you lose out significantly financially.
I am not mad about the game being more fair and by that - I am assuming you mean more accessible for new players (who will now at least have a full Core Set). If you read previous posts you will see I have acknowledged this.
What isn’t fair is that players who have been with Hearthstone for a long time and invested heavily into Standard Format are the one who are losing out big time. Please explain how this is in anyway just or fair ?
5 Likes
In all honesty, it isn’t just people that have put in money. Even F2P players should get compensation. I’ve invested heavily into the Classic set when it was announced that Classic will be an evergreen set that’ll ALWAYS be in standard format. Gold and dust wasted on the assumption that this set will always be available, in standard, THE format played in tournaments, by vast majority of streamers, friends, etc.
I’m super glad that everyone is on the same playing field now, but the decision to have no full dust refunds is absurd. They noted that the card wasn’t nerfed, so no full refund, but moving a whole set out of standard, to me, is the biggest nerf you can do. You literally banned the whole set (excluding a select few cards) from play in standard.
8 Likes
With a full golden Classic collection, asking for a full dust refund is asking for 419200 dust. You would be able to full craft the next 5 expansions (regular) and never need to spend again. Is this something in Blizzard’s interest to even do?
Oh, and while still giving you full access to “flexing” in the Classic format from Day 1.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PcpW6UER3IetpTMDxNYuUa6MC9e0k7KivpKBNGxUt-8/edit?usp=sharing
The GIMMEDUST tab is for you.
Additionally, due to the duplicate protection, players could just spend a whole bunch of gold on Classic packs, every new card they open is guaranteed full crafting cost free dust, they just have to wait. Then Blizzard sees expansion pre-order sales drop because everyone crafts all the cards for the next year with the dust. Does this sound right?
I still think a dust refund in the magnitude of a regular HoF rotation (~10000 dust) is warranted, for multiple reasons.
This rotation is going to be the biggest ever with 3 expansions, an adventure and DH Initiate set, and with it, some players want to continue playing with their old cards, and they move to Wild.
The HoF dust was a nice reward each year, to craft some missing legendaries that they’ve wanted for a while. I myself crafted Sylvanas and Sneed’s after Rise of Shadows released, because I felt I had the dust to work with. Now, we don’t have that at all.
1 Like
I agree - the dust would allow for significant crafting of future expansion cards. Blizzard really should have factored that in before making such a mammoth change and defaulting an entire set that many players have invested heavily into.
Players buying Classic Packs now do so in full knowledge that they will be unable to play them in Standard after rotation. This was not the case with players pre-this announcement. Even if you still decided to buy a Classic Pack now - you would simply get like-for-like if Blizzard gave you a full dust refund when you dusted your Classic Cards.
That is by your reckoning 1/4 of the original investment. That doesn’t seem a fair reimbursement at all. Players did not ask for their entire collection to be rotated out of the format they were led to believe they would be able to play them in forever. If this has been in the pipeline for a long time Blizzard should have announced it then - so players could stop ploughing resources into these Packs.
It sucks you lost 2 Legendary cards. Try 240 Golden Cards you crafted. That sucks too.
5 Likes
This change would make more sense if the core set was not usable for wild, so that owning the cards after they rotate would make sense. They are also robbing players who bought into older expansions by sending some cards from wild sets into the core set. As far as I can see this is very bad for long time players who spent resources on the game. If blizzard does not make this right by the players I might just have to say goodbye to hearthstone.
4 Likes
Most of the classic cards are garbage. No where did Blizzard promise they will never rotate out of standard, just not as a complete set in regular rotation, only a few will go to HoF each year. This is a game structure change that makes an exclusive mode for it and makes the game more F2P for everyone (and some classic cards will still be in the Core Set), I don’t know why you’re against it.