The entire warlock class was nerf out of the game?
Devs keep designing with literally only a single archtype in mind for warlock?
They are forbidden from having staple cards?
It’s not much to ask to devs to go back and fix the game.
Without new cards , without printing cards that gonna 100% be the reason for more nerfs.
Just go there and actually fix.
That’s not how decks work man.
Any, any mage spell is better with Flow. If mage got spells buffed, spellage would still play Flow, and the Mulligan Wingate would go up because it would determine a even better effectiveness for the buffed spells.
You misunderstand. I think if mage spells were good enough on their own, then IF could be gotten rid of, as in banned, destroyed.
Let’s face it: Team 5 needs to consider banning cards and starting over.
This expansion is busted.
The Winrate of the deck would go up.
Not of the card.
Actually the Winrate of incanters flow itself would go down.
It’s the reversal phenomenon of what happened when RSW was nerf.
For who not knows incanter’s flow used to have 60% Winrate before RSW was nerf in past.
Then it did skyrocket to 70% Winrate because of the lack of other ways to win with the deck.
Is there any spell that wouldn’t get better with IF? I mean, outside of zero mana ones?
If mage had a pretty good, early game spell, I would still find it even better with If in the mulligan. Same for mid and endgame.
If the spell is good, mage will win. If the spell is a spell for 1 or more mana, it’s better with IF. Then, the spell is better and mage would win more. Ergo, mage would win more with IF in the mulligan, still
Lab recruiter doesn’t contest the board or put pressure on the opponent. Arcanalogist is plain bad vanilla stats, and mage secrets are too costy and situational in the current meta, making its a bad card. Starcryer is terribly stated and die to anything, ping, HP, token, you name it, it dies to it. Firebrand is decent IF you can proc instantly the spellburst, which requires to play it of curve or to play fire and ice mage, which is too slow and terrible atm.
Wandthief is the only really good minion in all of thoses. and why that? Because its discovers spells. In the class with the best spells.
Only mage can win with a spell only deck in this meta. No other class can do that. Still wanna say that mage has bad spells?
And mage should win more.
The class is utterly bad and barely pass 50% Winrate because is inflated by quest shaman popularity.
What part of “and viable” you missed from the title?
It’s no use have healthy decks if none of then can win games.
The solution to unhealthy play patterns is make healthy ones better.
And by making the deck overall better suddenly incanters flow stop from being a must mulligan.
It’s a win for everyone.
We have data that actually proof that you reduce incanters flow Winrate if the deck stops being utterly junk without it.
And the deck actually needs buffs power wise.
So why it is a bad thing to buff cards that both make other decks more viable and makes the actual one more bearable?
Sorry but I think you’re crossing the hate line here.
You want so much to have the deck killed that you just not want accept any argument that proof that it not needs to be killed despite of how factual they are.
I’m not advocating for unviable decks. I’m talking about buffing minions exactly because those are the healthy mage decks
What makes you think that? If Keleseth rogue got better minions, it would still take keleseth on mulligan because it buffed the entire deck. It’s the same with IF.
Which data proves that if falls off in mulligan with better spells?
…?
I’m exclusively a mage player.
It isn’t just Mage guys. The entire expansion has gotten so far away from class roles that even if mage were given good minions it would not matter.
Only broken decks win in this expansion.
The only way mage can win is to cheat mana massively and kill with zero cost
face damage.
RSW nerf makes me think what I said.
Incanters flow literally skyrocketed in Winrate after RSW nerfs.
A gigantic 9 to 10% extra Winrate to be more precise.
After looking more the only possible conclusion I did reach to explain that is that it affected the rest of the deck but almost did no scratch to IF highrolls.
Inflating IF Winrate by removing no IF wins.
Well, yes, you’re right, but how does this tie in with better spells lowering IF Winrate?
Clearly, having IF in mulligan got more important as the deck itself slowed down considerably with RSW nerf, and IF compensated that. I can see this, clearly.
But better spells reducing IF mulligan winrate implies those spells are better than IF on hand, or at least, that IF somehow her’s worse. What thought line goes to that?
Because that phenomenon is inversely proportional.
It’s counterintuitive but math not lies.
The reverse is just as valid.
Also I not talking about one or two spells being better than if.
I talking about 28 cards together being better than 2 IF copies.
A entire deck being better than a single card(even if a strong one) is probably acceptable.
So; if I am reading this right, you both agree that Mage has no deck atm without using IF?
Doesn’t that speak for Mage cards being weak?
Competitive deck? Well, really none. The disagreement is only where a possible solution would lie
Where did I say it’s wrong? I’m just explaining to you why mage seems to get singled out. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. If there is a mage thread, you guys jump on it. If there isn’t a mage thread, you guys start one. So of course there always seem to be a mage thread (and talking about the same things, because you guys keep talking about the same things)
I didn’t act like that, nor did I say anything remotely like that. I’m not even sure how you jump to that.
All I said is, as above, the reason why mage seems to get more attention is because you guys keep bringing everyone’s attention to mages.
You act like I don’t like the topic. You act like I would keep responding to threads I don’t like.
You’re so silly lol.
Your opinion is duly noted. I am just going to ask why you demand others to stop whining, but you allow yourself to complain all you want? Rules for me but none for thee?
Your replay actually showed that even classic mage relied on magic answer cards. Your tempo is actually bad in that game. You stalled with mirror images and freeze. Stall by definition is low tempo. Thalnos is low tempo but offer draw/spell damage. You went for burn with that early frost bolt ice lance. What you did have is magic answers from turn 7 flamestrike and a sheep that resulted in you stalling long enough for your burn to out face the other guy.
Your replay also demonstrated that mage always had incanter-like mana cheat with apprentice. It didn’t cheat mana for your whole deck, but it cheated you at just the right moment allowing you to ice lance and fireball while still having mana to ping away that squire, that 1 damage the hunter needed.
Other classic magic cards not shown in the replay include frost nova (+doomsayer) and ice block.
Those cards may not seem like magic cards now, but that’s because power creep is a thing.
Funny that you think Mage would get something in exchange for the non stop nerfs , botton line anything “healthy” would be playable and thats not the end goal for the class many want.
Unplayable meme trash (with low rng ) borderline tier 4 and maybe you might get some peace , and i say maybe because its not the first time a tier 4 Mage deck gets nerfed.
Mage isn’t out of the game though. Looking at HSR just now, mage is in the middle (#6 on front page, right after locks) and hanging on in the bottom of tier 2 in the meta page (and again locks being a few spots higher)
I don’t think people are against improving ('fixing") the game, but people can and will disagree on what it means to fix or improve the game.
Mage is literally played as knee jerk answer to quest shaman and that is about it.
There are also better answers against that deck(ones that not rekt your other matchups).
But people tend to play mage when they get a random excuse for doing.
Why they do?
Anything i would say here would be theory but the popularity isn’t and is there.
You can rationalize why people play mage all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that people are still playing it and the class is still in the game.
Yes… including your theory that people are literally playing mage as knee jerk answer to quest shaman.
(and I think buffing those two spells you want would just further cement them playing the same quest/no minion mage to answer quest shaman, as they might actually start doing better in other matchups)
We agree completely in this. Power creep has turned this game into a complete mess.