I don’t think they should even nerf it, they should just HoF it. Get it out of standard and wild.
It’s a bad card that it broken in very specific scenarios.
Just remove it.
As someone mentioned earlier it will be better for Druid in the long run.
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To be fair…they have already nerfed the card from 5 mana to 6. As usual, it is not Auctioneer that is the problem, rather it is all the cards that are 0 mana (or even better). If something which is fine and has been fine since the beginning of hearthstone, which has already been nerfed to allow for more time (do games even reach turn 6 anymore?), all this to say…seems completely fine to me. And I don’t even play this mill Tony deck or whatever. Let alone have I ever seen it. Or if I have, I guess I killed them before they were able to do whatever it is you’re having so much of a problem with that you’re calling for another nerf to Auctioneer.
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The deck that runs it in Standard is absolutely trash.
People hate it though because it feels “bad to play against” - the same excuse that they use about any deck that plays in hand rather than on board, even though they decimate hand decks 90% of the time with aggro, they remember the 1 in 10 times they lose.
Anyway, Auctioneer is bad. It’s not a good card. Just let them HoF it so people stop crying and blizzard doesn’t have to balance around it. Everyone wins.
That’s not really being fair to the experience.
Suppose we have 30 card decks. 1 card is created that simply says “You win instantly if you drew this on your first turn”. People put that card in their deck but the deck that it’s in is terrible and only has like a 40% win rate.
You queue up to play a game with someone who has this deck and they draw the card. They instantly win. Nothing you can do about it.
Now, in your view there is nothing wrong with this single card because it’s not a high win rate. But in the view of the actual playing experience, it’s stupid because it creates a bad play experience. Such a card simply shouldn’t exist no matter how good or bad the deck is because it’s a dumb design.
Same thing goes with other experiences in the game. If they are not fun and very uninteractive, the win rate does not matter - it’s all about the play experience.
All you are doing is trying to rationalize with statistics without taking player experience into account. You can’t do that. If you did that and that’s all that mattered, then the above card scenario I mentioned should be perfectly acceptable to you. I doubt it is, so you must admit that at least some sense of player experience must also be taken into consideration.
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I’d say cards like Auctioneer are always going to be a problem. It’s not so much about the deck’s actual WR, but about whether you want to allow a deck like that to create non-games where you just sit and watch a turn 6 pop-off you have zero control over. It needs to highroll to win but that doesn’t take away the fact that it’s just a bad play pattern.
Mech rogue, warlock and warrior need balance updates. Miracle Druid will go straight to the gutter because it’s likely the product of an oversight and is more an exploit than real competitive gameplay. I agree that people complain about OTK decks or Tickatus-like decks just because they hate losing with their AFK control deck; but I don’t think this case is the same. Also, this card has been terrorizing Wild for long enough.
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Hi Schyla.
This is an extreme example, but the things “people dont like to lose to” varies greatly, as a Priest player you should know that. People were calling for nerfs on Boar Priest when it had a 23% WR in Standard.
I might not be the right person to speak to because I don’t get triggered by other peoples decks, more by my own performance (because im an adult) but I honestly don’t
care what people think “feels bad”.
Standard Druid is absolutely trash and can be handled by ALMOST every deck with correct mulligans and adjustment of play, even without that, it loses to every deck inside and outside the meta, its literal dog poo. Even when it high rolls, its not that good.
I agree with you here but I can’t think of a card ever printed that meets this description.
What does uninteractive mean? An aggro player would say that playing against a priest, warrior or warlock was “uninteractive” because their opponents barely play any minions, despite the calculations you have to do with mulligans, draws etc to stay alive and win.
Yeah I agree. That’s exactly what I’m doing.
Completely agree with this statement too which is why I think they should HoF the card.
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It’s meant to be extreme in order to exaggerate the problem in order for one to understand the complaint.
Assume a scale 1-10 where 1 is EXTREME example like the one I gave and 10 is the opposite, it shows that you agree a 1 is wrong but also shows that you agree that somewhere on the scale is where we draw the line. I assume you don’t just draw the line at 1 and stop. So the only question is what do you find acceptable and what don’t you? You obviously don’t base this purely on win rate as my scenario points out.
And that is the difference between what gets nerfed and what doesn’t. Big Priest might feel bad to lose to, but it doesn’t create nearly as bad of an experience as someone who OTKs you on turn 3, does it?
What we know from previous nerfs is that the turn in which Blizzard seems to not be ok with OTKs happening are any OTKs that happen turn 5 or earlier CONSISTENTLY. It creates non-games with bad experiences. Thus, Mozaki got nerfed in the past along with other things.
Auctioneer creating turn 4-5 OTKs consistently in Wild is not a fun experience because it’s a combo that happens to fast. A Big Priest player killing you on turn 6 or 7 with a mana cheated minion isn’t the same. Why? Because you can actually interact with the minion, it’s not a charge.
They simply do not like OTK non-interactive games that happen too fast and neither does most of the player base. Win rate doesn’t mean anything here. It’s more about play rate because the more it gets played, the more people who are negatively affected. And the more people who are negatively affected in your game, the more people that will leave it.
Yes, but the entire reasoning of the scenario was to prove to yourself that win rate is not the sole determining factor on what needs a nerf and to prove to yourself that a bad play experience does hold some weight.
In the scenarios I’m mentioning and the things in the past that have been nerfed, the non-interactive part is basically someone playing Solitaire. It doesn’t matter what you have or what you do, all that matters is how good their draw is. If their draw is good, they will OTK you from hand with NO INTERACTION available on your part to stop it once it starts.
Thus, Time Warp Mage nerf, Mozaki nerf, infinite Snip-Snap nerf, Test subject nerf and Auctioneer nerf. All nerfed for that exact reason.
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I can’t comment on Wild, I haven’t played it recently, but if this is the case then I agree with you.
My comments on the situation come completely from standard, where people are complaining about an awful deck that every deck beats that occasionally high rolls and gets a win. Even priest beats it somehow,
In my opinion Moonbeam feels way worse to lose to than miracle druid as you’re literally on a clock with almost no way to counter outside of killing it fast.
I still think it’s a better metric to use than “feels bad” - who cares if you lose to high roll 3 times if you smash the deck without any opposition the other 7 times?
Same with most decks, most people just don’t know how to mulligan and the %s involved.
I agree with you here.
Unfortunately the degenerate Tony Druid deck pulls it off surprisingly easy by 5 at the latest and 3 the earliest.
“Feels Bad” nerfs are basically done when a deck has a super simple play pattern but the end result against a novice player is they get roflstomped while average or above average players know how to play against it. It’s to keep newer players engaged in the game on ladder when a deck inundates the lower ranks of the ladder.
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It is a better metric. But it shouldnt be the ONLY metric used, which thankfully, it isnt. That is what you are struggling to come to terms with.
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Yeah, it highroll OTKs on turn 3. Turn 3. But consistently turn 4-5. Turn 6+ is like a low roll.
Ok, BUT let’s also remember one thing here. The deck win rate is low, but many of the professionals playing it are saying the win rate is higher because it takes some skill to use and the deck list isn’t even refined yet.
A lot of what gets changed is usually based on what the best players feel need to be changed. They have some of the most experience, but more importantly to Blizzard, they have the fan base and views. If people see a broken combo, they tend to not like it.
So it might have a low win rate overall in all of the game, but people are hitting Rank 1 Legend with it and streamers, some of which are usually cool with Druid combos, are voicing concern.
And if Blizz is nerfing it, they see the data behind the scenes and don’t like what they see.
Yes, but often what happens with nerfs is they don’t target a specific problem card or the main issue. They will often target something else that they feel needs a change. For example Time Warp Mage. They didn’t change Time Warp - the main problem. They targeted Grey Sage Parrot instead.
Because imagine for a second there is a tournament happening that Hearthstone is hosting and the final match, or just a huge match, is being played and the person wins the entire thing simply because they hit that high roll.
Once you understand why THAT looks bad, you understand why it IS bad and should be nerfed. You shouldn’t win with no interaction simply because the slot machine hit 7 7 7.
Fair point.
I’ll take that
Again, I can’t comment. I’ll take your word for it my friend.
Sounds like the perfect deck. I think thats an amazing example of what decks in HS should look like. Unless you’re in top 2000 then no one should have an issue with it unless someone has dedicated hundreds of games to the deck to refine it. This will impact less than 0.1% of the playerbase.
I see myself as a very strong player. Druid is also my most played class. I’ve hit top 1000 legend at the end of season plenty of times and I was awful with the deck.
Reddit crying.
With questionable success in most cases.
If this happened more often, more people would watch HS. Pavels Babbling Book was peak HS viewership. Thijs is the best player of all time, how many people watched or remember his games?
This! When the acknowledged best combo player in the world playing HS Pocket_Train says it needs a nerf you better believe it’s a problem. This is the guy who played Boar Priest despite it having a crap win rate to many championships and won with it as well as finishing top on ladder with it.
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This doesn’t mean it needs a nerf. 99.99% of players will ever come up against someone who can handle a deck like this well, because the people that can are top 500 legend.
I think maybe you need to play wild to see the deck first hand. You really don’t need to be “good” to win with it, you just need to be “good” to win with it with a high win rate.
When you’re playing against someone and they just slot machine a win and delete your entire deck on turn 4 and all you got to do was play 2-3 minions, you might feel a bit different about the deck.
I think it’s a combination of what is happening in Wild and Standard combined on why it’s getting axed.
I’m willing to bet when the nerf announcement comes out we will see the term “non-interactive games” in there.
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You’ve gone back to wild specifics again that I can’t comment on and I’ve already said I’ll take your word for it.
I also said the card should be HoF for the sake of Druid.
I was talking generally about your general comments. Not this one deck and card in wild specifically.
Ok here’s a statistic for you.
Top1K Legend, Plague DK is Tier 1.
You read that right.
Do you know why? Because Miracle Druid is so broken at that rank that its direct counter, Plague DK, can inflate its win rate by being one of the only real counters.
That’s how much play Miracle Druid is seeing up there.
It’s so busted up there that it’s making a Tier 4 deck into a Tier 1 deck.
That’s called warping the meta. HARD.
This is in standard.
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Not in standard.
I’ve just checked last 1/3/7 days and it has always been t3 since mini set. T2 at top legend, barely 50%.
Plague DK wasn’t there to counter Druid, it was there to beat control warrior.
T1 Decks are Warrior, Mech Rogue and Thaddius. That’s for standard top1000 legend for the last 1 - 3 and 7 days
Top1000 legend is a poor representation of the meta anyway. Who cares about a tiny pocket meta compared to what the average player experiences?
Well it was as of yesterday, now it’s back to Tier 2. But the games it played against Control Warrior / Miracle Druid are almost the same amount. And it beats Miracle Druid worse.
Almost all nerfs are based around that area. It matters because that is usually what ends up trickling down to the other ranks. It’s where you would want to look for nerf targets to hit them before they get to be problematic later. It’s literally what they have done for years now.
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Yeah but they arent balancing standard either. Or twist. Or arena. Well, they arent balancing. Just rush out the next dumb thing and sell packs.