I mean Underbelly Angler is not the same amount of value as Impending Catastrophe or Peasant or Crooked Cook. It’s literally just cycling cards and only murlocs and that’s only if it sticks.
The game has been worse since Stormwind, for a number of reasons. Burn damage right now is nuts. Inevitability has been bad since then too.
Only murloc? And those cards only get value if they stick… Which is… How often.
I respect that you feel the game is worse. However, a lot of us prefer it. So what’s to be done? I quit the game during the Renethal era, it was intolerable for me. Ultimately this is all about preferences, you can’t please all the people all the time.
They don’t require you to do anything you wouldn’t be doing normally. You just have to be ahead.
Do I really need to explain the difference between peasant (a 1 mana card that requires the player to do nothing to draw cards) and Underbelly Angler (a 2 mana card that requires you to play murlocs in order to generate random murlocs).
I’m not advocating for the Renathal era. I’m advocating for some restraint when it comes to the game’s overall mechanics. That includes lifegain and value generation for control decks.
I dunno man, peasant seems a weird hill to die on. We were discussing specifically value in aggro decks, and a fairly started one drop that sometimes draws a card, basically never does on coin, and is an awful top deck later doesn’t really convince me.
It either draws a card or forces your opponent to kill your 1 drop. A 1 drop that keeps doing something every turn is not good for the game.
I cannot even fathom how anyone would think it would be.
And yes, 1 drops are generally awful top decks after like turn 3. But peasant isn’t even that bad for a late game 1 drop because you can protect it with taunts or again, if you’re ahead.
But I mean that’s just one example. Impending Catastrophe is worse. Pet Collector is worse. Frozen Touch works as value generation too. Frost Strike. There’s just so many cards which do a powerful thing and cycle.
There is so much badly designed nonsense that the good/balanced cards they design just get completely overshadowed and forced out by.
Lol it’s beyond trivial to kill a 1 drop. And why wouldn’t you want to kill it? Either the aggro deck has to play something that threatens to kill you or threatens value…what’s so wrong with that? It’s a good card but to point it out as an egregious example of power creep is beyond silly. Does every card have to just be a giant pile of stats to post the Aldrius approval test, or is aggro just not allowed good cards?
Out of the rest of the cards only one is played in aggro, and it’s also played in other archetypes. I’m not gonna pretend power hasn’t been crept, it obviously has, but nobody has convinced me that a) aggro plays significantly differently from 4 years ago and b) aggro is more dominant than then (again, outside of isolated example like RoS, which in any case wasn’t as ponderous as Castle Nathria, which we only just came out of). That is what I’m here to argue.
Oh yeah, somebody mentioned Divine Favor used to be a thing. Nuff said.
Far too many facts and sensible arguments here. But because it doesn’t blindly hate on aggro you won’t get much support. Feelings trump logic always in this place.
It’s beyond trivial to play a 1 drop. Forcing your opponent to react to your 1 drop is asinine. It’s just a crappy play pattern. Trogg creates the same issue. Seriously, 5 drops are too slow for the game now because of this nonsense. The game is over by turn 4 sometimes.
Aggro also shouldn’t have cheap non-parallel board clears, I think that’s just common sense. Which like half of them do now too.
If aggro has card generation, control has to have even more card generation in order to out value them (because… that’s how control vs. aggro works, control wins by outvaluing the aggro deck and dealing with their threats). It’s the main reason the game sucks these days. And it was not a problem in RoS, or AoO, or KotFT, or Barrens or Scholomance. Or at least not as big a problem.
Situational card in a class that rarely played aggro. Also they HoFed that card for a reason.
Like the only real examples of card generation in aggro decks got nerfed pretty hard pretty fast. (i.e. Starving Buzzard)
Nah. There are so many untruths, contradictions and logical fallacies in this post I can’t be bothered any more
fIvE dRoPs ArE tOo SlOw. Ahhh yeah, there’s none of them in the current meta. Ah wait no, there are freaking TONNES. You even mentioned one in your last post.
Control beats aggro by using their removal half way intelligently and not spaffing it away on non-threats, and remembering to actually try and win the game at some point. Control Priest is coming back. Want to know why? Unholy DK, a game that plays for board and has barely any draw/generation.
Seriously, just try harder. I’m done.
Name one. One.
Go for it. Name one time I contradicted myself or said a logical fallacy.
Bloody ridiculous
There’s like… 3 (Aegwynn, Pet Collector, Rat King). And they only see play because of incredible mana cheat/synergy.
…what exactly is your point here? So aggro not having card draw allows Control decks to be playable? Wasn’t that the original point?
Control loses hard to like every aggro/tempo deck that has insane late game reach with curses or frost spells or whatever.
The important note about peasant is that it’s a start of turn effect and not a end of turn effect.
So it really start going if you fail at removing it.
Also…
THE GAME START ON TURN 1.
If you die on the hill of no turn 1 cards being able to snowball you’re almost saying that you’re okay with people ignoring the board the entire game.
Because that is in fact what happens very often when players aren’t pressured FROM THE START.
Playerbase ‘Why doesn’t the board matter any more’
Blizzard ‘Here’s a 1 drop that encourages interaction’
Playerbase ‘REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE’
I mean if it was end of turn it’d be completely absurd. But even still, it’s one of many, many early game snowball cards.
But then I think Herald of Nature and Bloodlust are enough for “snowball” cards.
Snowball cards are good for that, but there’s a lot of early game snowball cards right now. I think 2 mana for a snowball card is fair, 1 mana’s… pretty fast.
I really take issue with their design philosophy being…trying to counterbalance incredible greed with incredible aggression and it just makes zero sense to do things that way because it just makes the game super polarized.
Peasant doesn’t make the board matter. That’s just silly. Reasonable limits on board clears, rush and face damage would make the board matter again. If I see decks running Tar Creeper in a meta deck, then the board probably actually matters.
You’re wrong.
It basically say.
Interact with me or i gonna draw a card for your opponent.
Players that aren’t pressured into trading minions have no reason to do so.
I’m not wrong. Minions don’t have to be able to snowball independently to be threatening, and we have bloodlust and mark of the wild and grave strength and all sorts of cards to make minions threatening.
Certainly 1 cost minions don’t need to.
Yes, you are.
No one trade minions because it’s fun.
They trade minions because it’s the way to win the game.
If my opponent plays a babbling book i literally ignore it because not only it’s a 1/1 but it already done it’s thing when It was played.
Losing a minion attack with a babbling book is what we call as losing tempo.
Where did I say people trade minions “because it’s fun”? What planet are you on?
A lack of snowball cards is not the reason the game became less board based.
It is part of the problem. Around 50% of it if i could guess.
So the biggest part.
What part of democracy needs saving? I keep hearing this but the country seems pretty much on par with what it’s always done.
So which cards? Peasant and what?
Cuz I think it’s had very little impact and hits decks that don’t play greedy (ie fair board decks) and does nothing to combo warlock or druid or the burn decks.