https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/hearthstone/t/devs-want-to-make-meta-slightly-slower/100891
oh yes they also wanted more boardplay^^
And the best way to slow down the game was definitely to nerf Renethal. ^^
That’s kind of like Donald Trump having to run again to save democracy. ^^
They want it slightly slower is abit scary it means this is almost the speed they want it.
Had to do some research on this because the op link is broken, this is what I found: twitter.com/alecogereco/status/1611150530252013568.
The quote is
A soft goal for the patch will be to slow the game speed down slightly
So sounds like they are very noncommittal.
The speed of the game isn’t really the issue. Frost DK and Shock Hunter aren’t really very fast. Aggro druid and Implock are pretty much the only traditional aggro deck.
That trump finisher was absolutely unnecessary and also very wrong.
Nerfing renathal was also correct, but not enough.
-1 / 10 thread.
Well it is kind of truth. Trump is similar problem for democracy as is for example Orban or Erdogan.
Otherwise yeah, game is too fast now.
Renathal enabled the meta to go faster, not slower.
The logical response to greedy decks is to kill them before they reach those greedy combos that have no practical way to counter or answer if they reach it.
And if Rena give people 40 health, well then aggro has to speed up to go through that 40 health. Heals/armor/removals/draw having power creeped also meant aggro decks have to go even faster (and more resilient to removals, ability to reflood/refuel, etc) to account for those things.
Alternatively, rena enabled a type of token vomit deck in some classes (hunter comes to mind) that can neglect defense in favor of more pressure, because you’ve got a 10 health cushion to not die in a face race or sudden burst combo. It’s kinda like how a good taunt isn’t just a good stall for control, but also a way for aggro to protect the rest of their board.
The way to slow the meta down is to make it so late game plays aren’t so unforgiving if the opponent reaches them. It may even mean we move away from the notion of hard “win conditions”
Absolutely meaningless as long as aggro decks are capable of the speed they have now. Aggro decks aren’t going to slow down just because greedy decks are nerfed. They’re going to go as fast as possible no matter the given meta.
as selfish i will sound i absolutely think blizzard should revert the Renethal nerf and apologise for being morons at balancing the game, in addition they should change so any mana cheat cards can no longer go below 1 mana.
Then we have nothing to worry about, as rotations are a thing and nobody will keep what they have forever.
But the problem remains that aggro will always going to be fast enough to punish greed. The stronger greed gets, the faster aggro gets to match.
If you don’t tone back down greed, rotation will only have a chance to reset the speed for a while, until greedy decks discover the next broken thing that needs to be punished by aggro, and aggro will respond to match.
Note I said only a chance, because without toning things back down, then new rotation may come out with new combos that are just as broken.
Exactly. They go as fast as “possible”. But why did they make it “possible” for aggro to go so fast? Because they also made it “possible” for greedy decks to be so greedy.
I have a theory about renethal, because I can’t imagine that they wanted to nerf it.
As for my theory, I think with the old Renethal it’s difficult to classify the effects of the last nerf.
I can well imagine that he will come back or that he will be taken out of the game for a balance period for future adjustments.
But you also have to communicate that!
They just say whatever makes them look good at the time
Saying that Renathal made aggro more aggro, or people playing more aggro is nonsense.
Aggro will kill as fast as it possibly can no matter what. Its not like they will cut a few cards to slow their decks down because there is no Renathal.
Just take a look at the current meta which is full of aggro and no Renathal and you have your answer. Using the above logic then this meta we have now wouldnt be so aggro, but yet it still is.
In castle Nathria a lot of people played aggro to counter the ever disgusting Druid, but that Druid would exist even without Renathal because the sheeple like broken things.
Wrong but nice try. 20
It’s a good thing that’s not what I said or meant then. You must have misunderstood what I wrote.
And as I said already in my second post, how fast aggro can “possibly” be depends on what greedy decks can “possibly” do. The stronger greedy decks get, the stronger aggro decks get.
The meta tells us what I already said: aggro (ok I’ll add some combo too) punishes greed. That’s not new really. Most metas have aggro dominating, with a few control/combo existing because they happen to find a niche to survive or is gimmicky enough that people just like to play it.
It doesn’t really tell us whether rena sped up or slowed down the meta, if that’s what you’re trying to demonstrate. Apples and oranges man.
If by “above” logic you meant what you wrote, maybe. But… again, that’s not my logic.
You’re actually agreeing with me. The more powerful greedy decks can be, the stronger aggro gets to match it. And since greedy decks like Druid can still do their broken things post Rena nerf (or even without Rena, I think they have decks for that), aggro also continues to be as fast as it is now.
So by this Logic if they killed Druid and Blood DK Aggro would slow down? I seriously doubt that. The extra 5 health from Renathal was what was killing aggro.
Unless First is talking about the speed of future aggro decks, I actually don’t know what he’s trying to say. Even if he’s referring to that, we won’t see those balance effects until like 2 years from now when they’ve taken into account Renathal only gives +5 health instead of 10. Could be faster if they do balance patches to aggro taking that into account.
Aggro is going to be as fast as it needs to be to “gold fish” people regardless of the powerlevel of Control. If anything, the stronger Control is, the slower aggro has to be to add the value required to have the gas to finish out a game, which manifests as aggro transforming into more of a midrange deck.
That’s not the logic.
Except it didn’t kill aggro. Before rena nerf the top decks included naga priest, miracle rogue, aggro DH, imp lock, aggro druid…
Aggro was and is barely inconvenienced by rena.
A deck like control paladin was a thing, but at the same time, the extra 5 health was helping a deck like beast hunter do its “vomit minions and not worry about your own health” type of aggro deck.
At best Rena is one step forward two steps back.
Except control is stronger than ever. By strong I mean what they could potentially do. Control can potentially drop 30+ damage from hand or drop huge boards or gain a billion armor or shuffle colossals into deck or get treasures from kazakusan etc, and what we see isn’t more midrange decks, but the opposite: more aggro and combo that can just kill you before you reach your potential greed.
Not necessarily, even the yearly rotation can reset the power levels, because not every deck has most/all their good cards in a single year.
All the heroes in alterac for example will be rotating. cough guff cough
Synergies between this year and last year’s cards will go away.
Take druids again. Whether it’s ramp or aggro, they are using cards across the two years. Some form of either will likely remain, but it won’t be the same because they simply won’t have the same cards and same synergies.
And the core set may also change. Can you imagine the ripple effects if Brann for example isn’t in core anymore?
Utter nonsense. Aggro has consistently been fast, and now has even had power creep so that most aggro decks don’t even run out of steam until they run out of deck, REGARDLESS of the state of greedier decks. Aggro has NEVER fallen out of the meta, greed at times has. Your opinion is completely ahistorical.
They don’t know what they want. A bunch of wishy-washy, passive/aggressive, talent-free, overpaid, petulant children,
who seem to believe that Rune of the archmage and brann/parrot are innovative.
I think all of them could benefit from a regular dose of lithium.