Orrrrrr…
They know the old formula always works but try to act like it’s something different for the extra buck from who don’t want to admit that.
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Baseless insult.
Didn’t say otherwise.
I’m saying aggro will always be faster than control. And since control keeps on power creeping, aggro will keep on power creeping too.
As did rest of the game.
That’s how aggro has always worked. Aggro is a combination of putting on pressure fast and drawing fast (so you can keep putting on that pressure) and hope it’s enough to kill before the enemy gets to play their bigger/better stuff in mid-late game.
Pallies had divine favor that plays right into them dumping hand and then drawing through the deck. Even the slower but still aggressive secret pally could cheat out secrets which thins their deck (aka draw AND play secrets at the same time)
Aggro locks will make use of tap to help draw, but their best aggro decks also incorporate other draw. In standard implock has impending. In wild discard lock has Malchezaar’s Imp
Hunter had “sunshine” in classic where they used pre-nerfed buzzard to do a huge flip turn that has draw and burst while putting stuff on the board.
When DH first came out Skull of Gul’dan could be included even in aggro decks since the mana discount in an aggro deck usually means the DH can play the stuff he draws at the same time.
Secret tempo mage, like secret pally above, can cheat/jank/tutor secrets and thus end up thinning their decks fast. If by turn 8 they somehow still haven’t killed you, they can play their legendary weapon that draws 3 at end of each turn. They had this other legendary that is like proto-outcast, drawing a card when mage plays their right-most card)
You might not have seen an aggro run out of deck as often before because aggro usually kills people before they run out of deck, but that… actually indicates that aggro isn’t that much stronger in the meta. Instead of only needing 10-15 cards to kill, they may need 20-25 to kill.
But if you can go through 20-25 cards in your deck, you’re better off playing a combo deck that has more surefire combos to kill people.
This btw is another reason why you have to nerf greed first. Suppose we don’t nerf greed, but we nerf aggro. That won’t stop people from going to combo, and combo can draw even faster than aggro decks. Greedy decks will still die in about the same amount of time if not sooner.
The last two vs reports supports this. The top decks are combo, not aggro (miracle rogue and quest DH). Spitter hunter is tier 2 and that’s part aggro part combo with the spitter.
Aggro decks with few combo/burst like aggro druid, aggro DH, and imp lock are in tier 3 or lower.
Nevermind the aggro decks some other classes used to have but they are so bad they don’t show up on the radar. Aggro mage hasn’t been a thing for a long time. Aggro pally had a stint in barrens but they got nerfed multiple times until they no longer were a thing. Warrior trying for some aggro/tempo enrage thing? Still a joke.
Caps and repeating yourself does not make you more correct.
Aggro decks can only be meta if they’re fast enough to consistently kill what’s in the meta. As in they have to know what greedy decks (and other decks) are doing in the meta. If an aggro deck doesn’t have the speed/draw/steam/burst damage/etc to kill what’s in the meta, that aggro deck is not good enough to be meta.
A few metas aggro aggro druid was a top meta deck, but mostly because ramp druid was top dog and aggro druid happen to be a good match for it. Well now ramp druid isn’t so hot, and neither is aggro druid.
Having said all that, note that I never said aggro has fallen out of the meta. Methinks you’re arguing a strawman here.
Except for all the history that supports me.
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Thanks for the wall of text nobody will care to read.
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No it isn’t quite that, when you make so many broken cards, the meta no longer can be controlled.
I think the lack of a nerf is that they really don’t know what to do.
(Plus when they do something, like you said before, we know it will be something stupid that doesn’t address the real problems.)
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The other guy seem to care. He responded to my last reply even when it was over a week ago.
And i do hope the people who supposedly want a slower meta (this thread topic was kinda bout that) would have the patience, attention span, and general cerebral capacity to read through longer posts that take more thought to construct than a buzzfeed headline.
If that’s not the case, well I guess this community deserves a fast meta.
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Maybe they shouldn’t have buffed totally fair cards because they wanted to push new sets.
Like they’re about to in the next balance patch.
Right before a mini-set and a year end rotation.
Right now the meta honestly isn’t that fast, games end around turn 8, but the number of decks that have huge inevitability. And the cards which just endlessly scale. (Relics, Shock Spitter) Or huge lifegain, huge draw, huge board clear. It’s not entertaining.
Did Demon Hunter really need a deck that’s just Jade Druid (the most obnoxious deck ever) but… better, and with huge lethal reach?
Sorry, My Irish is up today. So sick of Brann, Astalor, Rune, and Parrot.
Too bad you got your history wrong. Used to be aggro decks still had half their deck left when they started topdecking, and usually they would concede by then. They also never had the ability to drop multiple big minions with massive hand buffing back then, either.
So, you must not have been playing this game very long for you to think that history supports you.
‘Back in my day, literally every game would at least go to turn 43 and I you ever attacked face your hero would explode and your collection would be deleted’
I would love to hear specifics about this mythical time in Hearthstone history where playing in a proactive fashion was not rewarded, outside of the odd slower meta here and there (one of which we came out of little more than a month ago). What do you people even want? Because whatever it is, it isn’t hearthstone.
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A slower meta would favor the likes of druid, and I’m sure most of us do not want to have a druid-dominated meta. That’s just as bad as rogue/dh-dominated metas, just a different flavor of mana cheating and oppressive feeling of fighting against inevitable defeat because you can’t outvalue them or even keep up with their plays.
More like “back when I was such a scrub I didn’t even realize I was a scrub.”
Unironically, there’s a lot of fun to be had at Silver rank if you don’t mind switching your brain to the off position. Except you can’t. Part of the “honeymoon phase” of first falling in love with a trading card game is the ignorance of what’s good and the unlimited possibilities that ignorance provides. What people don’t understand is that there’s no way to put that back in Pandora’s box.
But I digress. The point is that the game doesn’t just get faster with new expansions. It also gets faster the better you get, which makes nostalgia goggles stupid.
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Yeah I never thought if it that way, you’re right. It makes me laugh when some people are like ‘I’m at super duper top legend and I’ve never been so bored, everything is so over optimised’. Yeah like, duh, you’re gonna invest that much time into something and only play at the sweatiest end of the ladder, guess what is inevitably going to happen?
I mean I started playing just before Rise of Shadows, which was known at the time for being super slow, but the best players were mostly rocking inner fire Priest which would build insane unkillable boards and draw a billion cards by turn 6 or 7. The reality is its always been super cut throat and ‘anti fun’ at the sharp end. At least in my time.
Too bad I’m posting from my fun account, where I stay around gold.
If you idiots would pay attention, I didn’t complain about how FAST they were, by the way. I complained about POWER CREEP, and specifically mentioned how they run out of steam less now and have more hand buff crap. Just let me know when you two want to respond to what I actually said instead of some moronic straw man you made up.
What hand buff crap? Is this a gold thing?
Yeah sure, power creep only applies to aggro.
Doesn’t sound like you’re having much fun in your fun account. I could be wrong, but maybe get a new hobby instead of creating extra accounts on a game you don’t like?
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I mean I dunno about handbuffs, but aggro decks absolutely have way more value generation since Stormwind than they ever did before. Aggro decks back in Gadgetzen, even in Descent of Dragons did not have access to card draw or discovers as far as I can remember.
I recall very vividly in DoD Mech Paladin was running Crystology. Also Pepperidge farm remembers Underbelly Angler. Tracking and life tap have been a thing since classic.
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I was less sure about DoD. I was mainly thinking of Face Hunter. Underbelly Angler was… Ashes of Outland? I can’t remember.
Tracking isn’t card draw, Life Tap is, but it’s meant to offset Warlock discarding it’s own cards and has a downside.
Angler was Rise of Shadows, so nearly 4 years ago. Whenever I ask the question ‘when was this mythical time when initiative decks weren’t the norm?’ people always ignore the question, make stuff up, or move the goalposts entirely.
People say they want less polarisation but when something happens to make less polarisation, such as aggro getting late game juice or control getting powerful early game (but definitely the former gets cried about a lot more) it’s the end of the world and the devs are idiots. People are so blinded by their preferences that it dumbs down the conversation massively
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What are you even talking about? All I said was aggro decks didn’t used to have so much value generation. Also extremely aggressive aggro decks should not have very much value generation, tcgs are designed around decks like that running out of steam.
I’ve never heard anyone complain that aggro decks need more value.
All I said was aggro decks didn’t used to have so much value generation.
Yeah, and as we’ve established, that was at least 4 years ago. People would have quit in that 4 years if they thought the game was worse.
So when was this time the game was so much better, and why have you people not quit? It’s OK to have an opinion, but if we’re bringing facts in to support that opinion, better make sure they are correct.
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