Crystal core nerf: load of bull

Multiplayer Discussion
68

U and I have had a few run ins.
Reading through the responses and how you FEEL about the deck. I can’t disagree with you about any of the complaints.

Nothing to really add on just wanted to give Haunter a plus 1 from me.

I hate quest Rogue with a passion but it’s great to see the other side of that exact situation and discussion

Ontop of this instead of making a separate post…

If card I used regularly got patched or changed I would expect some sort of compensation to then try and keep up with other decks.
That’s the way it’s been sine the beginning of tha game (not including classic cards) because changes to those have bigger implications on the game as a whole.

I’m firmly in the opinion of no dust refunds.
If! Big if!
If the reason they’re doing these changes are for the good of the game in the long run.
That I’ll excuse

Changing Quest Rouge for the 5th time with no compensation is appalling

It fits into only the category of changing a extremely influential card which in turn means compensation to the players. Even if it’s only played in fringes. Doesn’t mean it’s excused from refunds

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72

I’m guessing you play big priest, explodia, or some other broken deck. Complaining about a deck that the card based around has been nerfed three times. Pathetic, tons of other cards have been nerfed in that deck too.

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Thankfully someone with a logical opinion.

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Well if thats the case, wouldnt be better to ask for revert this change instead of dust refund? we already know that if the community asks for it, it will happen (check tess and lynessa for that) and if this card was used by so many people, it can happen, instead of just getting 1600 dust points and losing the way to make your quests, right?

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If you play rogue or just keep up with nerfs you’d know blizzard basically only nerfs rogue.

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76

Actually no one really cares that much by the deck destiny itself because it had a really long run until here.

And the deck not has that insane cost or cards that you can only run at it despite of the own quest.

If blizzard really want to not give refunds they will change back anyway and if blizzard wanna keep with it they will refund.

Simple as that.

77

I tend to think that Blizzard kind of needs a “sliding scale” of refunds for different situations.

  1. Full Refunds. 100% dust value for cards that are directly nerfed, banned or moved into the Hall of Fame.
  2. Partial Refunds. 25% dust value for cards that are indirectly nerfed. This would be stuff like changes to an overall mechanic that isn’t a direct nerf to a specific card, but does still impact a card to the point where it substantially impacts its effectiveness.
  3. Token Refund. 10% dust value for cards that are “effected” by changes to other cards. This is for instances where a card itself is not changed, but changes to other cards make it so this card is no longer anywhere near as good without that synergy.

Values are mutable. It’s just a thought experiment.

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78

For preface. I rarely play Rogue and do not have Cavern but anything that qualifies as a large nerf should make a card refundable. That is just a simple thing of policy that we as players should ask for. Regardless of how we feel about a certain card or collection of cards. Any other words deviates from the issue at hand.

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79

OP here’s some major FFT
So like in 1999, well actually 2017, but it feels that long ago.
When CC got-released, it was way, way too OP.
Like this requires repeating, for anyone who doubts or did not play during Goro.

Then, nerf 1 happened, which slowed it down, and despite VS report back then saying “Decks trash, nobody plays it, it’s auto win against” and such…the deck totally dominated decks that were not mill/aggro based.

Nerf 2 is about the time the deck crumbled, which is not just bc of that nerf, you have to factor in the tri-annual powercreep the/all games always have. So relative to the field, CC tanked, not just bc of nerfs 1 and 2.

Still on board I hope?

So here’s whats up.
The reason everyone (including myself) totally-disliked playing against CC back in Goro days is because the deck says “this deck dominates big deck ideas, and you better play aggro or mill to counter this”. So they nerfed it and probably designed rogue in a way to not-buff that quest.

The big problem is look at wild.
BP/Bloomlock/QuestMage and others could also borrow that same label I wrote above for CC. “This/these decks dominate big decks, so you better play aggro/mill/the same freaking meta-thing, to counter it”.

This is the problem with hearthstone inevitably.
Aggro decks just have no-space to be creative due to how few cards the aggro-card pool looks at when absolutely perfecting those decks.
Mill decks, essentially coldlight rouge, have nothing creative going on, just future support for the 2 card combo that sets the deck off.

So that’s why soooo many people want to play big decks, because midrange is/has been dead for years, aggro/mill just have no room to deckbuild with. Unless you want to play a weaker aggro deck, which honestly is like embarrassing to even try because its not going to work well.

So anyway what im getting at with this heap.
Crystal Core back then got beat up so much bc it was too op, no doubt.
BUT,
Stuff like BP/Bloomlock/Quest Mage and others affect hearthstone the same way. Dominate the late game.

So ideally as a developer you’d want your most op big decks to require the most amount of navigation after decklist/mulli strat to succeed. Why? bc if you bake all the “skill” into a decklist, that decklist is pub info insta, including play-2 which is the mulligan.

So compare the decks…what takes more “skill” to win with?
CC, Big Priest, Bloomlock, Quest Mage, and all the other mana-cheating big decks?

What mana-cheat deck cares about what your opponent plays on the board, their hand, deck etc?

These are what you want your big, OP smother decks via mana cheat to basically require to win with.

Big Priest, outside of mirrors, like doesn’t care at all what you do right?
Bloomlock….I mean get outta town…that deck is a 3-card yolo W. It’s soooo embarrassing for hearthstone, seriously.
Even Cubelock….manacheating Via Skull/Void. It’s just gross.
None of these decks care what you do, at all.

Does Crystal Core care?
Does that rogue deck care what you play, how you navigate after the mulligan (decklist and mulli strat are both public info immediately) so you have to look at turn-1 and after play when analyzing if a deck is worthy of being-strong.

So crystal core bounces things, solitaire style at first right?
That’s not caring what your opponent does at all, or your outs, or whatever.
Howevs, obviously the deck uses heaps of draw, so that signals any time a draw card is played, a good player shouldn’t auto-cast that draw card, but should think “what are my outs”.

Sonya-plays seem thinking-involving…right?
Mimic Pod (if its ran who knows) seems thinking-involving?

So quest rogue seems to start off streamlined-no-think plays, but then seems to transition into “ok…how am I going to win this?”.
Is this correct OP?

I think the reason CC should be protected / defended rn is if that deck actually involves thinking, unlike the other big mana cheating bad boys like Big Priest, Bloomlock, Quest Mage, and company.

WE don’t want decks where the W is baked into that twitch/youtubeable/hsreplay decklist and mulligan strat. We want decks where the W is tied to thinking/planning out turns and such.

Crystal core seems to be a hybrid of brainless and brain-heavy…right?
And hey…that’s a LOT better than brainless 3 card solitarie bloomlock, big preist entirely outside of mirrors, and like Quest Mage.

OP could you shine a light (for real) on some difficult plays you’ve made with Sonya and Quest Rogue…to illustrate how Crystal Core isn’t a brainless deck for the whole match, just in the beginning stages?

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‘’ We have updated the functionality of the Rogue quest reward Crystal Core in order to address some inconsistencies. This new functionality also applies to Dark Pharaoh Tekahn’s Battlecry effect’’.

Now look at the words here of functionality and not nerf. :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh yeah this is definitely a nerf and dust refund is needed. Btw no i dont have the card so i wont be gainining anything either.

Still here s my explanation on whats exactly happening.

Blizzard calls something as a nerf when it affect only a certain card.
When a general mechanic is changed (which seems to be the case) they dont call it a nerf.
Lets take for ex old quest druid. When it was released and you played faceless manipulator on a strong minion this counted for the quest. After a patch they changed the summoning mechanics and therefore faceless counted as summoning a 3/3 minion. Still no sh**t was given and no refund was given for the quest.

Something similar happened here i think. They didnt change the card but they changed the general way enchantments work (for tekahn i think). In other words enchantments dont work on minions as they used to. Specifically what happens is Crystal core s case is:

''After Crystal Core is played, the base copies of your minions will now have 4/4 stats. The stat numbers will appear as white, instead of the green text indicating a buff. This means that if your opponent steals or silences your minion, it will remain as a 4/4.

  • Additionally, minions currently in play will receive a onetime effect that sets their stats to 4/4, overriding current enchantments and clearing damage.

  • Some interactions will change under this new functionality. Cards that create a copy of a minion with specifically stated stats (Sonya Shadowdancer, Prince Taldaram, Barnes, etc) will now work as written on the card text. For example, the minion summoned by Barnes will be a 1/1, instead of a 4/4.

And while theres some logic behind them since the change on a mechanic changes the way maaaaany cards work they could at least give refund to the cards that get hurt too much like in our ex crystal core or quest druid or Lynessa.

That said T5 never does that unless the community gets really pissed. Anyone remember dk rexxar or Tessa and the community s reaction? This is what it takes for the devs to actually give a proper refund.
Lets all congratulate them :partying_face: !!!

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81

Developers do not understand anything in the game. They do not do anything about big priest , but kill anyone not desired quest on rogue. AMAZING DEVELOPERS. Small indie company

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I like how they used barnes as an example… they are just spitting on people who hate BP while destroying a thing that doesn’t see play much

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Actually it started with Mekgineer Thermaplugg and the leper gnome nerf but nobody raised a protest over it other than a minority that was shot down by the community because “nobody plays the card” and established the idea that they don’t need to refund for indirect nerfs.

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84

I don’t see how they can consider this to be a problem but not Giants and hero cards in standard

85

I wan’t here during that expansion but it’s good to know this is a steady increase of their “let’s keep ALL the money” tactics.

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Giant mage get’s wrecked by murlocs, treants and really any kind of hunter.

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This, but they can’t change the coding for how big priest resurrects its minions?

Haha, classic Blizzard.

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88

While I fully agree, I think Crystal Core got changed not because they wanted to further de power it, but because they are using the Crystal Core code in Tekahn, and they wanted to make those changes based on the interactions they saw while play testing Tekahn.

Again, considering it ends up being a nerf for Crystal Core, they should offer a refund.

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89

Barnes If you are getting triggered every Barnes time someone mentions Barnes, Barnes and you are blaming Blizzard for it, Barnes that seems like a problem on your Barnes end.

I don’t get triggered every time someone mentions Frost Lich Jaina.

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90

I would agree with this consistency change, if blizzard would un-nerf the cards like Giggling, because this card was nerfed, because of the power of questrogue and sonya in cobold and catacombs. So if Blizzard balance a Crystal Core, because of Sonya, it’s stupid that Sonya get changed, because of Crystal Cores effect.

Short: Unnerf Giggling or give us the Dust refund we demand for the nerf on Crystal Core.

2 Likes