It has gotten out of hand, but thats what powercreep on powercreep does
No less than 1, boom problem fixed
I guess a rework to Flash of Lightning would do. Draw a nature spell, it costs (1) less or smth like that. Problem solved.
Speaker Stomper time!
No. Turn 6 is a highroll, turn 5 is an utterly ridiculous highroll, and turn 7 is pretty normal.
I was thinking about this more and I realized something that may be causing confusion. Itâs a key point to understanding the Shaman matchup. And that is: Shaman can do 28 damage from hand on turn 6 much more consistently than it can do 30.
A lot of people say that Shaman only needs â6 spells and +2 Spell Damageâ but they only run six spells that deal 3 damage base, so theyâd need to either draw all 6 or randomly generate whatever they donât draw. Outside of a crazy highroll Shaman needs 7 spells and +2 or 6 spells and +3 to actually OTK because that allows Pop Up Book as a valid combo pieceâ . But if you have taken even a single unhealed hit from a 2 Attack minion, yeah, suddenly Pop Up Book is a valid combo piece and youâre much more likely to be dead with just 6 spells and +2.
This is EMPHATICALLY NOT an OTK. It can be countered by healing to 30 and makes a multiple matchups harder for Shaman: Paladin (Lifesteal), Dragon Priest (if theyâre smart), and Plague DK (if theyâre lucky with the healing plague). For some other matches itâs trickier to heal, but theoretically any matchup can either fight to prevent that 2 damage from minions or use a neutral minion to heal.
â Snake Oil is valid as one of the spells here though, either the 7/2 or 6/3 versions.
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That might be true, but I disagree that doesnât make it an otk. If it can burn you down from hand to that much health in one turn, it still is an otk. Otk just means one-turn-kill, I donât think it needs to be 30 dmg or above to be called that. In any case, if they need to they can just wait to have enough damage to otk you on turn 7 or 8. They can generate more Lightning bolts with the naga, discovers or wandmaker.
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It is by definition a two turn kill if you deal 2 damage on one turn and can deal a maximum of 28 on the other turn. So no, it absolutely needs to be at least 30 damage to be legitimately called an OTK
Of course. Iâve already said that they can consistently OTK (proper) on turn 7. Itâs just that on turn 6 what youâre usually dealing with isnât an OTK, itâs 28-29 damage from hand. Being at full life against Shaman on that turn is basically equivalent to a Time Warp, so if you already have board presence itâs how you win.
If that isnât an OTK, then neither is Paladin, since they usually whittle you down a little before playing Leeroy. Dumb, arbitrary definition of OTK. Decks should not be doing 25+ or even 20+ damage in a single turn from an empty board, especially not on turn 5 or 6. It was oppressive when Warrior was doing it last month (and that required ten mana), itâs oppressive when Shaman and Paladin are doing it now. It has happened often enough recently that it appears Team 5 believes this is the direction the game should go. After all, cool cards sell packs, and we can always nerf it later if it is too much.
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I donât always agree with Scrotie, but when I do, it looks like this.
I donât think the fact that 28 dmg from hand is not an OTK changes anything about the uninteractiveness and toxicity of that deck. It shouldnât exist in itsâ current form.
At least with Bio it was harder to pull off the combo. You had to take more turns than now on average and you didnât have to insta concede against warriors. It was overall healthier.
Now itâs just unhealthy. I literally have to pray to either go 1st in the matchup so he doesnât get to deal 2 dmg to my face with minions, or hope for a heal turn 5 so I donât get OTK-ed, and all of that while putting threats on the board and preparing turn 6 lethal otherwise heâs just gonna finish me off next hand.
Iâm not a fan of deleting classes and archetypes from the game, but this is just toxic without counterplay. You literally lose because youâre not playing a Warrior xD
I changed my mind about nerfing flash of lightning. No other shaman decks runs it, so itâs a safe target for nerf.
Devs, you tried, but you failed. Just delete the card (nerf it to the point where itâs just a blue little picture you sometimes see when you browse shaman card collection)
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No, you lose because you donât have turn 6-7 lethal in a format where lots of decks have turn 6-7 lethal. I guarantee you that when stats come out Paladin is favored against Shaman. Itâs NOT a consistent turn 6 win. Shaman isnât that toxic and itâs a Tier 3 deck. This thread is mostly a bunch of OTK haters spreading disinformation.
Noone does, unless youâre afk, lol.
besides, Iâm already familiar with your tier categorization, and itâs delusional as hell
Whatever you say wonât change the fact that games vs shaman are decided WITHOUT you having a say in it whatsoever just on the basis of their hand, and thatâs toxic and uninteractive.
The deck win rate doesnât matter.
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Not really. Like I said above, 30 is a lot harder than 28 or 29. Thereâs actually a lot of interactivity there because healing is a counter.
I absolutely despise this attitude. Nothing with a winrate below 50% should be nerfed, ever, and that includes Shaman currently.
Even if it thins out your playerbase because people feel powerless and like nothing they can do matters?
Pre-6 heals are rare in this meta. One of two classes which have it is a hard counter not worth mentioning and the other one isnât even played.
If you feel powerless against something that has a winrate below 50% then the problem is you, not the something below 50% winrate.
No, the problem is 14 shamans in a row highrolling you and thereâs nothing you can do about it. Nothing. You can play warrior, a deck you donât like or just accept youâre going to be a punching bag for tilted players who got stuck and their only source of joy is gambling.
Warlock player, right? You can heal before turn 6 with Popâgar, Mortal Eradication, Felstring Harp, Thornveil Tentacle, and Drain Life. Thereâs lots you could do. You just canât be bothered to do it.
Youâre making excuses and telling falsehoods. Nothing more.
The thing is, youâre just not playing enough games to experience the same things people complain about.
And for some reason you canât understand that if you lost a game in which you had absolutely no chance to do anything and it keeps happening to you, youâre just going to quit the game. Thatâs not healthy. Iâm surprised you donât realize that.
Popgar pre-6 is a very rare thing to have and as Iâve said, I lose most my games from healthy 30 hp. Your analysis of how often they have 30+ hp turn 6 was way off and even if it wasnât, they have it much more often than I have Popgar turn 6.
Besides if I play popgar turn 6 to heal and survive, I donât have any pressure on the board, so he can just draw more cards and finish me off. Popgar is dead so no more heals for me and gg.
You need to play more if you intend to counter someone who no-lifes this game in high ranks.
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What are you talking about?
Iâm playing sludgelock, I only have popgar.
It doesnât even matter. Heal is useless in that matchup if the Shaman is not braindead.