Try, y’know, NOT clicking on the topics you don’t want to read.
None of that would matter in an offline mode, so no expense there. There’s no definite proof having an offline mode would lead to hacked items in an online mode if all the online relevant data is stored and manipulated on the server side instead of the client side.
As to ‘can’t afford an offline mode’, it’s amazing how games like the Witcher series, Grim Dawn, Conan Exiles, Pillars of Eternity series etc etc haven’t bankrupted their developers despite how magically expensive they are to create because they all have offline modes or are offline games.
Really, the online aspects cost a company far more than the offline aspects due to server purchasing, maintenance, employees to manage said servers etc etc.
Demanding all games to be online only when some games really have no reason to be online only is a joke.
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I tried Heroes of the Storm the Controls to aim and shoot were stupid - what a boring inept game. I played it like 40 minutes and uninstalled it. I am still mad they made that boring game a a Tragic the Harrowing rip off game to with Heartbone. They should have taken those hours an money and made a cooler Diablo Game.
Still, they need to update the client - to calculate, generate and store each and every items and enemies which is now being done at the server’s end. I think what he’s mentioned is that, Blizz doesn’t have resources to understand the existing code and covert them for the offline mode, which is I’m also thinking in a same way.
They already have done that work. In the console versions.
I mean I’ve tried to make these same posts but all you get are shills replying trying to act like you’re a lunatic for requesting reasonable features because they have no self control and would cheat, you’ll also never get an official reply from any activisonblizzard representative. It’s almost like they’re scared to announce features the community wants.
Consoles and PC version have totally different code sets, so yet they need set of engineers who can port console’s functionality back to PC. And even the Console version was launched by 2013, 7 years ago from now, when Blizz was blizz, not such a sucks company like now.
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Got any proof of that claim?
They are not identical of course, but it is still the same game.
Haha, like this is possible?
I feel so bad that you are so upset with this great game!
Remember we are talking about a mod making tool, not a mod. I have ideas of how that would work.
Again just because they can is not reason enough. That doesn’t get you anywhere at all. When cheaters try to play legit and find out they can’t play without cheating is when they see the real loss. They suck at playing the games that they cheat. But still they can do so in a way that is smart as far as not getting caught. That is where they are smart.
You really want me to remember that do you when you wrote what is quoted below.
Mind making up your mind, either software has a core that serves as a foundation. A set of rules that the rest of the program has to follow or it doesn’t. Unless you want me to view you like some Indians would “You speak with forked tongue.”
Wrong because offline will cross over to online as long as there is decent competition systems in place. They will find a way to accomplish it.
If players know that they will get caught easier is the reason. Even though they know that it could be done. But it is not worth getting caught doing that kind of cheating.
Cheating other than botting and THUD.
Then it isn’t a simple copy and paste of the PC version after all.
So according to you when I play D2 Median XL Sigma. I have not only the skills of Median to spend points into I also have points to spend in the non Median D2 game right. I don’t see how I can do that. You either have Median XL Sigma skills to spend points into or the non Median XL Sigma skills to spend points into.
Wouldn’t the players have to learn how the mod tool is blocking the mod?
You don’t know how I would make such a tool.
Separating the two in a way where both sides cannot communicate with each other then it would work. Two copies of the same game would work, but that would cost a lot of money and Blizz won’t do it.
I was saying that the legit PvP’er separated themselves from the cheaters. Where they had their own little groups of friends that they would PvP with. That is about the same thing as the cheaters being kicked. Now the cheaters only have random PUGs to play in. Or their own little groups.
I was going by what I read on the D2 forums, even though I never posted on those forums. I seen threads of PvP players complaining about cheaters. They were told to make games that were protected with a password. And only give that password to those that you know won’t cheat. No one ever corrected those ones so I have to say that they are telling the truth. That the legit ones separated themselves from the cheaters.
Okay then I guess now you are saying there were no such things as password protected games that players could set up for legit players to play PvP.
That is because they would get caught easier than with open bnet.
Cheating just because you can is not a good enough reason to cheat.
You and Shadout, which is suppose to be an economist instead of someone that knows about computer programs say that cores in software don’t exist at all.
Yes as long as you never do a world event or fight a world boss.
So you are saying that game’s software has no core set of rules that the entire program has to obey. Where it is just a chaotic mess of random strings of data that somehow work the way the devs want to. That is saying that game development and mod making is done by sheer miracles. No, not the programmers, but the miraculous, mysterious workings of software and non can even comprehend how it works.
It is not about making the offline mode work. It goes against what they want to do with the game. They don’t want to separate the player base. They don’t want pirated servers. They don’t want any more cheaters that they have to chase after.
Finally they don’t want to have to spend money changing the core program of D3.
As long as it will give the players and advantage in some way they will figure out the way to get those cheats online.
Look you are trying to say what fits one should fit all. That is not how it works in games or any other industry. Each company chooses what will fit them.
How would you like it if someone said you must spend around $5,000 on your next computer to play D4 when the one you are using right now might be more than good enough. You would probably tell them forget about me spending that kind of money because it wouldn’t fit my budget. Then they can say your neighbors and others throughout the world do it so you should do it as well.
Now do you see what I am saying. Each one of us sets limits on what we will and will not do. Gaming companies do the same thing all of the time. Even ones with way more money than others set their limits as far as what they will and will not do with their money.
Now as far as the expenses goes with Blizz. They would have to chase after the pirated servers. Then they would have to reset their priorities as far as what the hacks team would have to work on. Or worse still hire more hacks team members which I don’t think that they want to do that.
Please show me where those games had initially launched being online only then converted to offline mode then you would have a point.
From what I have heard in other threads that Blizz rents the servers for D3. And I do believe that they are not really spending nearly as much money per month as you think.
They have already said that they will not be giving the PC version of D3 an offline mode years ago. Then add in how they don’t like to have their games modded is the other reason they won’t do it. Warcraft 3 reforged is just another piece of evidence that shows they hate the modding of their games.
What did you change your degree from economics to software engineer?
Yeah but once they figure it out the mod tool is running on their computer, so they can just make it not do that.
Rockstar, or any developer for that matter, can’t prevent me from doing something on my own computer. They can only block me from doing something on their servers.
Unfortunately P2P games run the “server” on one of the player’s computers rather than on the actual game server, which means it can be modded to do whatever the hosting player wants.
I don’t really need to know how you would make it.
This is what I’ve been telling you all this time
I am glad to see you finally agree with me that offline could work if they separate the two in a way where they can’t communicate.
There was plenty of people with both hacked items and legit players.
Which it’s not exactly difficult to determine who has a white ring equipped.
and if you go by what’s on the WoW forums, that game has been dying since early 2004 before it even game out.
Forums are a terrible indication of what a playerbase is actually like.
People cheat because they think it’s fun. They cheat because they don’t want to put up with a game’s grind. They cheat because map hacks make farming runs more efficient when you don’t need to look for the stairs down to the next level.
I didn’t say people cheat for the sake of cheating. I said just because you don’t think it’s logical doesn’t mean people don’t cheat.
This has nothing to do with cores. Stadia already has exclusives so clearly it’s possible.
So every game ever should be Stadia exclusive.
and we should remove all competitive aspects of the game so that nobody ever has a reason to cheat because that’s the only reason to apparently cheat.
What’s what you want right?
The core of Mass Effect 3, if you want to call it that, was the Unreal Engine 3 which is not developed by BioWare and is generally a solid piece of software for something that was intended for mass use.
The stuff that BioWare wrote that sits on top of the game engine however can, at times, be accurately described as “a chaotic mess that somehow works”.
Again: Other developers can sell tons of copies of games and have a better stock price than Activision Blizzard while not having a problem with any of this stuff.
So maybe they should be taking notes.
Good thing you don’t know what I am thinking.
Look I am talking about two separate clients. And offline client and Battlenet client. Two separate versions of the same game. Which would mean that each would have to get updated. I don’t think that Blizz would do something like that.
How long would the legit ones remain with the cheaters when they are told that they can ban together and make their own private games with passwords so that cheaters will not be allowed to play with them. Them forming their own groups is about the same as cheaters getting kicked from groups.
So WoW forums are the same as D2 forums, huh. Further I am sure that if I were to read every WoW is dying post that I would see the majority disagree. Instead of the majority telling the poster to make private games and only PvP with close friends that you know won’t cheat in D2 PvP.
If you are saying that I have to look at every post as coming from a liar on any forums then what am I doing here. For that matter what is anyone doing here if we are only blowing smoke up each others noses.
That means that I can take the fact that legit players did and probably still play PvP with a close circle of friends in private games that have passwords so the cheaters cannot enter.
Still not good enough reason to cheat. It is just as bad as doing it because you can excuse. You still don’t learn how to play the game legit. Chances are you will suck at playing the game if you ever decided to play it without cheating.
You and him are trying to say that cores don’t exist. Where programs don’t have a basic set of rules that the whole program has to follow. A core of rules that controls all actions taken by the program. If all programming is that chaotic. Where it is just one miracle after another mysterious miracle that programs work like the devs wanted them to. Then programming means it has no set rules at all. Not any language in programming has any set rules that you must follow to be able to write a single line of code in that language, let along the entire program.
I am not speaking about Mass Effect 3 only. I am talking about all software, both gaming and non gaming. Even down to the game engine is all just a bunch of chaotic mess that somehow works as intended. Where programs have zero basic rules that all actions that the program takes has to be obeyed.
So one size fits all then huh. Well it doesn’t work that way in the real world. Only in your fantasy world it works. Each company has the right to choose what fits for them. Just like you and others have the right to choose what computer gaming system will be your next PC gaming system. Even though you might have enough money to buy a $5,000 gaming rig. But decide to only purchase a $1,500 gaming rig.
I don’t and it doesn’t matter when it comes to a modding tool that’s on the local computer preventing people from using those mods in a P2P multiplayer environment.
Whatever you do, people will just undo it.
They could just put it on the same launcher and have the mode only access the code that it needs.
So the offline would never touch anything for the online mode.
Most people who were actually playing Diablo 2 didn’t really care.
At most it changed the meta to shift people away from using cold, lightning, or fire damage. If you didn’t use those, the hacked items didn’t make you into an unstoppable god or anything.
Something tells me you didn’t read every Diablo 2 post about PvP either.
but the point is that forums aren’t indicative of the playerbase as a whole. We’re a pretty niche group of it for ANY forum.
It’s not surprising you completely missed the point and made up your own fantasy about what I said, though.
Then I guess I just imagined using map hacks back in the day for the exact reason that I said.
The thing that I did didn’t actually happen all because ShadowAegis doesn’t agree that I did it for a good enough reason.
and we all know if you don’t personally agree with it, literally nobody on the planet is capable of doing it. It’s simply impossible according to the laws of physics.
I’m convinced you haven’t even been reading this part of my posts because you went off on a completely irrelevant tangent.
I’m pretty sure I could write anything here and you’d keep going on about another of your fantasies of an argument I didn’t make.
The problem with talking to you about software in general is that software doesn’t really do absolutes, but you almost always want to deal in them like some kind of Sith.
I’ve seen software that was a chaotic mess that worked even without a game engine to sit on, and I’ve seen software that could have something somebody who isn’t a programmer might call a core. We’d probably call it an engine or a framework, depending.
Of course I never said cores don’t exist, I said cores aren’t inherently offline or online. I also probably said a few times that cores is the wrong word.
but hey, reality hasn’t stopped you yet so why should it start now?
Each company has the right to choose and each potential customer has the right to voice their opinion about what the company should do.
If you’ve been paying attention you’ll notice I’ve not demanded that Blizzard add offline modes to their games, I’ve asked for it.
but it was other people who started saying they couldn’t do it because muh piracy and muh cheaters.
Also before anybody goes “But Blizzard said no”, Blizzard also said no to Classic WoW servers. They told us that “we think we do, but we don’t”.
and look where we are now on that.
Same difference.
Some cheaters do get caught.
Anyway, people would cheat even if there was no external benefit to do so (as in competitive benefits).
Obviously yes.
They can also suck at a game without it having competitive elements.
Yes. I really do want you to remember it.
The first part was about “cores” in game code.
The ssecond quote was about server side vs. client side.
These two quotes to be exact:
So yeah, your “core” thing is nonsense.
Whereas server side and client side really do exist. You are just misusing the words.
Basically all coding could be boiled down to a set of rules the program has to follow. Not like software can think for itself (yet at least, arguably never).
No. There is no reason they would ever find a way to accomplish such a thing.
Indeed. And thus it would not in any way be affected by having an offline mode.
And how would that happen?
Nobody except you said that it was.
The two versions of the games are nearly the same however.
You could have both, just run Median XL alongside a non-modded game, and mod the character back and forth between them. Would be a ton of work, but theoretically entirely possible to do, if you for some weird reason wanted to do it.
Which leads us back to the point that was made here; You cant “disable” anything for P2P. Because the people running the game on their client is in full control.
If the mod disables anything, someone else can just enable it again.
Nothing Median XL does is permanent. You could always mod things further, or less.
We have 6 “copies” of D3 currently.
But again, different games are not needed. You can have this separation within the same “copy” of the game.
Congratulations. You are getting closer to the truth!
People dont need more reasons than that.
Technically, people could know both.
I have been quite clear about not remotely being a programming expert. I use some easy programming/query languages at work (VBA, M language, SQL), which might give me a tiny bit of understanding about the concept of programming software, but I’d certainly defer to Cyonan who are clearly much much more knowledgeable about this.
Still, some of the stuff we are talking about here is basic enough that even I can follow it.
Well, the programming language basically is a core set of rules that the software that is coded with that language have to obey. But It would continue to be nonsense to then say that the software has a core. Considering the whole software entity is programmed with some programming language. Not only some “core” part of the software.
And before you ask, no, the programming language would not limit you to using only server side or client side operations.
Nonsense.
That is like saying as long as people would benefit from learning magic, people will figure out how to learn magic. No matter if it is impossible.
#NotAllGames. Im saying Diablo 4 should have an online and an offline mode. Not all games. I dont particularly care about all games.
Game companies also make stupid mistakes all the time.
They could chase after pirated servers. They wouldnt have to do it.
Nope. Their hacks team would have to work on the EXACT same things, with or without an offline mode.
Diablo 3 launched as online only, and then added an offline mode.
Then we have stuff like
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/122795/Ubisoft_Removes_Constant_Online_Authentication_DRM_For_PC_Games.php
Basic knowledge.
I dont have to be a meteorologist to tell you that it is raining.
Two clients or one client do not make a difference. it is an arbitrary distinction.
(at least on PC. In something like iOS it might make a meaningful difference since afaik iOS tries hard to limit interaction between apps. And even in those cases, one could potentially modify the OS to break down that limitation if you really wanted to).
This is nonsense. The fact that cheaters suck at games still doesn’t mean they wont cheat. A good reason is not needed.
Might be worth adding, that when I have said cores dont exist, I obviously meant in the way ShadowAegis described them. As in some kind of “thing” your software must have inside it to exist.
A core is a lose concept with little meaning in software as I see it.
Someone could potentially decide to claim that a specific part of their game code was the “core” of their game. It still seems like it would be fairly arbitrary. It is a word without meaning in the context.
Even engines afaik are not something with clearly defined borders you can say is is the “core” of anything. Like everything else, engines can be modified (and are being modified every single day) as much as you want to.
The only limit is really how much time you want to spend on modifying it.
if modders are so good why dont they make amazing games?
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Some of them do exactly that?
They do sometimes end up making amazing games like Counter-Strike. A lot of Valve’s games were originally mods that they hired the developers of.
The people who made the excellent Long War mod for XCOM are now making their own game too.
I’m also not sure what you quoted has to do with modders being amazing.
I was mostly pointing out that Heroes of the Storm is a mediocre at best game and calling it DotA wouldn’t have changed that or saved the game.
Some modders get hired by developers because of the quality of their work. Some even make the game do things that the developers had no idea the game engine could handle.