The Slaughter damage effect is not a guaranteed critical hit, it onlys procs FROM critical hits and not every critical hit. Therefor your claim of a magical 5x damage multiplier based on CHD is a lie not based on reality.
Do you even read people’s posts before you reply? I pointed this out to you like 3 times now.
Please read and educate yourself on the game before you spread lies.
Is English your first language? Are you able to understand the wording used in the Slaughter rune?
I’d say inconsistent, but okay. As I gathered it can crit, but dependent on your own crit rating which has around a 50/50 chance not to. You called me a liar on ChD% rates, which I replied to that. I had no idea you were still repeating the same thing.
Still a reliable burst I think since it’s additional damage for a small area if you can topple enemies, but again it doesn’t benefit from anything other than IK Set itself. Which was the intention by the way.
Haha no. You tried to frame Slaughter’s damage effect as possessing a straight 5x damage multiplier and your reasoning was that you argued it’s a guaranteed critical hit thus always benefitting from 500% crit damage on a dual weild class. Only by positing that it’s a guaranteed crit can you arrive at such a large multiplier based on CHD.
That is a lie. Please stop spreading lies about the game.
By the way, a 500% multiplier would have been 6x increase, not 5x.
That is not how Slaughter works. It’s a bad rune and doesn’t give anywhere near the power from Morticks that you claimed. You didn’t even understand that it doesn’t even always proc and is not a guarantee—just like it’s not a guarantee that it will crit.
Please stay very far away from mechanics discussions when you don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re not helping anyone least of all the game.
Naksiloth,
Now that things are settled, let this stand as it is and let’s all move along.
In the meantime, there are two other threads than can help you understand where it all comes from.
If you haven’t read them yet, you’re missing the bigger picture.
Regarding the necessary time and testing for a proper patch across all classes, given the amount of player’s expertise in the forums, it wouldn’t be difficult to achieve better results in one season’s time.
To say otherwise is admitting lack of professionalism or weak time management skills.
Still, i agree with you on that few things were to be expected this patch.
But, in the very least, do not mock the players.
Yeah realized that a bit late.
To be honest when it’s a crit trigger I thought it’s guaranteed without seeing “a chance” there. There are many guaranteed crit triggers in the game.
Alright… Last time me being a nerd: Insanity skillrune makes Slaughter’s effective damage about 450% by 1.5x multiplier and I think that’s something, yet I admit it’s not a good measure for pushing above other specs. When it crits it’d be like an extra non-crit, non-WotB HotA hit and that’s all.
Totally theory-crafting here but I believe we’ll see its potential through that Dream gem where you can have 2 open slots for fear based Rechel ring and can abuse Echoing Fury. We’ll see next Season I think.
Edit: appears it’s a speed build since Echoing grants the bonus after-kill, possibly designed for a Frenzy spec… That new amulet for not being hit simply asks for mass crowd control or immense damage mitigation. Blizzard simply tells you to stay zdps this season. They have no idea how to shapen the meta…
Why don’t you actually open up the game, make a Barbarian, read the Slaughter text, and play with it and see for yourself?
“Critical hits have a chance to deal 300% weapon damage to all enemies within 15 yards” GARBAGE
“Critical hits have a chance to deal 450% weapon damage to all enemies within 15 yards” - GARBAGE
“Critical hits have a chance to deal 1000% weapon damage to all enemies within 15 yards” - STILL GARBAGE
This game revolves around multipliers and legendaries which boost skills several times over.
If the skill said “Critical hits affect all enemies within 15 yards” - THAT would be good. Because then it would not be a new weapon damage entry boosted by nothing and would take into account any skill.
Theorycraft presumes prior knowledge and background experience.
To do otherwise is to make yourself a fool or produce misinformation.
But feel free to test your ideas in PTR before posting about it again, and let us know if you could clear T16.
Nevertheless, i will share my experience with that particular rune.
When T6 was a thing, i had a Slaughter build that could clear it, alongside Mirinae procs i believe.
I also had another build which used Razor Strop build, and it was great fun.
Yet, inefficient.
Then T13 came and a rune rework was introduced over the past patches which rendered the rune utterly useless in all aspects, damage, procs, whatever.
Goes without saying that clearing T13 was not possible.
Now we have T16, and nothing damage wise has changed, except IK6 set bonus.
It’s been a while since i last played, but it doesn’t take much testing to acknowledge it won’t work.
Still, go to PTR, test it yourself and report results.
Until then, do as Ulma proposes.
A proper Mortick’s nowadays should read something similar to the above, giving WotB the Slaughter rune and providing the effect quoted from Ulma’s post.
And this is a kind of item that requires proper testing.
Hope this helps you understand the mockery barbs feel regarding this particular item in this patch.
All this “% weapon damage” procs are useless since the multipliers on set bonus rised so high.
All the legendaries, gems and runes with this kind of effect are useless now. Maybe it’s time to replace “% weapon damage” by a “% damage on hit” calculated after all the skill, crit, elemental and whatever damage multipliers.
So it gets 450% weapon damage per tic with insanity rune. Still takes 90 procs to equal one hota hit
Naksilot HP drops to 0. Unless he has cheat death…
It’s tempting to reply with “Smoke Bomb!” like Krieger but I think I’ll hold o-- oh…
Correct. None of that is enough for 7 GRs, much less 4 GRs. I’m not talking about just WW, or IK, or even Vile Charge which capitalizes on the IK 6 bonus. You don’t seem to understand how damage multipliers stack up; as Ulma pointed out, there aren’t additional multipliers to benefit the rune. You get IK 6 and . . . that’s it. Compare that to, say, HOTA, where in the IK HOTA build, you get the IK bonus, Gavel, the bracers, Wrath, and leg gems. Arreat’s is a form of burst or instance-type damage.
Look, we’ve been over this. The bracers are doing very, very little to “buff” any build. It’s certainly not a meaningful buff as it addresses none of the core problems of the class, and it certainly won’t be piling on 7 GRs to anyone’s clears.
I don’t mean this as an insult, but you don’t understand how this game works for end-game pushes. PE, Toxin, Wreath, etc. don’t deal meaningful damage with any set. Those gems are never used for their damage; they’re used for their utility.
Here’s an even better example: Why does Avalanche deal zero damage in any and every MOTE build?
How much damage does Rend do in comparison to WW in the Zodiac WW build?
These questions are intended to get you thinking about how damage works in the game. They’re similar to the question: Why is the damage from the gems listed above always meaningless?
It’s not that simple. If you’d read our proposal and everything I posted in my threads, you would understand. The problem is much more pervasive and systemic.
Is it life or death?
No. We’re simply arguing our points.
Do we need you to tell us obvious things like, “It’s just a game!”
Absolutely not. You can choose to participate and be constructive, or you can simply not post. In other words, if you can’t be productive, you can at least stop trolling.
On the contrary, I have good reason to believe it means much more, whether or not X or Y made it into the patch. What’s more, our work goes pretty far beyond being “chair developers.” I don’t think you’ve read the proposal, and if you did, I don’t think you understood the work we did. List 1 are changes that would have zero impact on other classes–simple numbers adjustments to existing items that would grant Barbs what they need: intra- and inter-class parity. In other words, just those changes alone would suffice to do what I talk about at the end of this post: 2.6.6 and Barbs: A Measured Response
List 2 would do that and fix all the problems in our class–even server lag with WW. And again, the effect on other classes would be minimal. List 1 represents next to no issues for the game engine. List 2 would require far more testing and was always the dream list, the stuff we want but are less likely to receive.
I think you see the problem.
List 1 could have been included in this patch, easily, and without problem.
We didn’t even get that.
Read the link I posted above.
I think that’s my problem because I don’t see it.
Go to strikingly site and Ctrl+F; search “lag”, zero results; search “inner” or “inner cooldown” zero results; search “tickrate”, zero results. Not because you are entitled to comment on those because I doubt anyone around in this forums (this includes me) are eligible to make a comment but you have to realize problems on the technicalities are a bit deeper.
Also as I read from your proposal, one thing is obvious; Blizzard want you to stay as zdps. Look at Monk average clear and Barb average clear. Lowest ones, that’s the result of sharpened professions and will keep happening despite your best efforts. Just glanced over that as typed “server” word in the search along page line.
I’m glad we’re discussing this here and not in the main thread by the way.
It’s because they have their own excuse. They don’t wanna shake up the “meta”. That’s probably why they didn’t oblige for years, I bet. And why yes, that comment somewhere above nailed it on the head; “Blizzard just loves Wizards”. That’s just one aspect. Making Barbarians and Monks zdps is a way of pushing professions on the classes and they see it as the only way they can promote group play.
Tell them you don’t wanna get stuck in this whole meta thing, ask them to nerf the inner cooldown of procs (I’m looking at Dust Devils here) and reduce tickrate of DoT but increase damage. If they can not, then ask for a buff for Followers or Nephalem Glory through a passive (just like Crusader used to have), if anything to validate solo play somewhat while not hurting groups.
Engine is old and it favors burst damage above DoT that is WW spec.
You get their attention and word. Use it.
What’s the point of seasons if u cant “shake up” the meta ?
Ah, I see what you’re saying.
Okay, here’s the problem: The “lag” problem with WW has several components, but the simplest way to describe it a mixture of all the various ticks from WW and DDs, AD and Bloodshed procs . In truth, though, only Bloodshed is updating dynamically (along with the Zodiac ring procs). This is inevitable in the current form of the build because all our damage is front-loaded onto WW, and since that’s a channeling skill that relies on AD and Bloodshed, and since the Zodiac ring relies on mass bleeds, and since Parthans relies on mass Freezes, we have to fight in massive, massive density.
How do we fix that?
We divide the damage output between WW and Rend. If Rend did meaningful damage, we wouldn’t be as reliant on density. Our Ambo’s Pride would do that, and it’s capped, so there’s an upper limit to how much we need to pull in order to max out the damage bonus. Trash is going to die quicker. Elites are going to die quicker. Rend is not going exacerbate the problems caused by AD and Bloodshed, but it is going to nuke trash and leave us with fewer calculations over time as density thins out and we move on.
The other changes would assist in other ways, like getting Parthans, PoC, and IP out of the build, but that has much less to do with the problem.
As for the meta stuff, that simply isn’t true. Blizzard has gone on record saying they don’t balance around the meta, and with very few exceptions, that’s proven to be true. If they did, you would have seen triple Necro rats get nerfed, and you would have long ago seen zMonks and zBarbs disappear. All it would take is the removal of the Mob Rule rune on IP and zBarbs would be a thing of the past.
Our general feeling is: There was no excuse for not implementing the List 1 changes, especially after we were told that Barbs were on the table in the wake of not getting a single thing last patch.
Again, see my other thread where I analyze our patch history for a grim reminder.
Also, Monks are the second weakest class, only slightly more powerful than Barbs, so if you’re a Monk main, you should definitely organize your community the way we organized ours.
In his defence, Naksiloth can spell and has an understanding of maths.
Hey! The very same I was thinking about this self made truth-telling guy! 
Man, I missed a LOT of nonsense when I replied this morning.
Naksiloth, I’ll ask that you take the advice that I and many other Barbs are giving you, which is this: Make a Barb, push, and learn. Or just spend some time reading the guides in the Barb forum. But until you can accept what we’re telling you, the facts we’re telling you, there’s no point to discuss any of this any further. So, please, no more talky talk, bud. You’re not generating productive discussion. All you’re doing is frustrating folk who, like me, have explained the same thing to you over and over and over and over.
Experts matter. Listen to the Barb experts. Don’t be like the many other folk and YouTubers who see shiny new items in the patch notes, get excited, and don’t bother to consider the finer points. The Barbs you’re talking to, the ones who are most vocal about their disappointment with this patch, are the most knowledgeable Barbs in the game. We know what we’re talking about when we say that a four year-old item (yes, Mortick’s dates from 2.2.0) does nothing worthwhile for any of our builds. Our very best items are two years out of date, we’ve been ignored for years, and our best specs are only our best due to gimmicky, broken exploits.
Barbs aren’t fine.
We know what we’re talking about. Hang out, read, and learn. But stop arguing.
I want to clear up a few last details.
Incorrect. Vile Charge and R6 HOTA are only as strong as they are because they’re able to benefit from wall-charging, a gimmicky, potentially broken mechanic that masks the relatively low damage of all our specs. In other words, our two strongest builds are only that strong because we exploit how the game lets us interact with terrain. It’s nearly identical to how Twister Wizards used to stack twisters.
If we didn’t wall-charge, we would lose several GR tiers on both builds–between 3 and 5 tiers, in fact. It’s hard to calculate exactly how much since the builds deal damage in radically different ways and use the exploit for very different reasons, but 3-5 tiers is the current tested estimate.
For more info on wall-charging, read my R6 HOTA guide in the Barb forum.
This is 100% true.
This, however, is not true.
In our proposal, both List 1 and List 2 do indeed fix Barb problems. They’re not “more technical” than they seem. We understand them quite well.
The problem is damage.
We can’t deal enough damage.
Our List 1 changes fix this at a very basic level.
Our List 2 changes fix this and fix internal problems in the class: broken sets, skills, and other problems. The only thing we don’t fix is wall-charging because that, unlike our other fixes, relies on a potentially major adjustment to the game engine.
For more info, read–don’t skim, read–the proposal in full.
End of story.
Before or after calculating your guessed numbers and spreading your guessed absolute truth would be a clever thing to test the results on PTR man. Actually I tried some builds. Mostly no sensible difference but IK6 works really fine with Mortick. I cleared 120 for 2nd try. Of course its damage is till a lot back to other classes but barbs have now another viable build to push with: more than nothing. So it is NOT true what you are speking about in your novels that there are no build benefits from Mortick!
Beside this I agree that the damage boost till very needed for all builds.
About WW build: on lower level that is the most stupid brainless build in the game ever I think. For push that needs a very-very skilled and decent technique. Check this guy tier: Diablo 3 2.6.5 Barbarian: WotW Whirlwind Solo GR119 | Season 17 - YouTube
It is just beautiful how professionaly he builds up his progression!