Necros are no longer part of the preferred 4man push meta or speed meta in the current era. Are they viable if people want to do rat runs yes. Is that less efficient than other options currently? Yes.
True or false. The diabloprogress website shows era 11 data and not the current era 12 data.
Necro is still a viable zdps and for speed meta dps. So they are a part. I’ve seen multiple players, even high ones using Necro. Even on the ptr.
Might want to stop hiding your profile like micro. Coincidence? - Adios, cause you provide with nothing anymore.
Micro, i’m sure someone said this before – but player interest is a BIG factor for the performance discrepancy.
I play a lot of public games and I just don’t see Witch Doctors. The games are flooded with Rend Barbs. From my observation, I encounter more DH than WD.
WDs just aren’t a first choice despite having a stronger build than DH. (Although DH’s Rapid Fire build is an excellent choice for S19). I think the new WD set will change that in 2.6.8, provided it is balanced with other top-tier builds.
Myself as an example, I did not push my DH in NS-Era 12, my high score is like GR100 in 2 min. Why? Because i am now playing the AoV Crusader, and particularly focused on S19.
I wholeheartedly agree that class popularity is a key factor to consider. In general, strong classes are closer to their top potential while weaker classes tend to be further away from their potential due to less players.
When I have been working on class balance, I have used multiple methods. Recently.I have tried to determine that best methods that gives consistent results that can account for class popularity.
For example, if you compare DH and necromancer leaderboards from era 11 to era 12, the number of top pushes have decreased by about 80% and 50%, respectively. As you know these classes remained unchanged from patch 2.6.6 to patch 2.6.7.
The method that I used recently yielded the same results for both era 11 and 12 for DH expected for GR balance irrespective of the reduced popularity of DH. The same was true for witch doctors.
For this, I did not do anything fancy. As such, I think it is fair to say that the method I used can handle 5X differences in popularity. There are ways to account for differences in popularity by only considering a subset of the data set or doing data imputation. Although the latter is useful at time to impute “missing” data, I think it does not makes sense in our particular case. For choosing to use only a subset of the data you can standardized the popular class by paragon level and do permutation test either using averages or randomized on a rough paragon basis to the match the lesser popular classes and then look at GR clears. I prefer simpler methods where you do reduce the likelihood of artifacts do to data scaling. As mentioned, Blizzard’s theoretical 5K paragon WD has lost 10 GRS in their solo GR ability due to the pandemonium buff. I think this result clearly illustrates the problems with their selected scaling/transoformation method and/or dataset that they used.
The PTR is a bit silly to use because the bias in testing but I will humor you since you brought it up that the PTR has high necro clears.
Non-season
Barb: 137 Rend/135 H90
Crusader: 143
DH: 126
Monk 136
Necromancer: 120 (the second best clear is only 115)
WD: 138
Wiz: 150 (Bugged build with arcane torrent)
Maybe you meant in 4 man push:
Of the top 300 players in 4 man meta non-season, there is a grand total of 3 necromancers (i.e. 1%)
Necromancer and DH need help.
P.S. I do not believe that you should use the PTR leaderboard to analyze the data but just wanted to illustrate to TuneOut (who changed his username to JTP earlier in the day) that the data is not consistent with his claim.
P.S.S. My character profile is not hidden.
https://us.diablo3.com/en/profile/MicroRNA-1507/hero/116200754
Your suspicions are correct.
Phoenix,
My character profile is not hidden. I even linked it above and now below.
https://us.diablo3.com/en/profile/MicroRNA-1507/hero/116200754
I have my forum profile hidden because it is not relevant to my posts. Does it matter my recent read time or how many forum topics/post that I have read to assess my opinion.
If I have read 500 posts, does that make what I have to say more or less worthy? Do I need to read 5,000 posts? 50,000? 100,000?
Does it matter if I have more or less paragon than you in relation to game knowledge? Probably not. There are people with low paragon who are experts and high paragon whose knowledge leaves something to be desired.
Figured something was off 
Since he will not accept what I say, can you independently confirm for him that the top non-season class is currently crusaders in terms of highest solo GR clear and not wizards? I have already provided links and screenshots.
This topic is about DH and necromancers, it is hard if someone keeps derailing it saying that necros have soloed GR 143 in the current non-season which is not the case.
The top worldwide necromancer clear in non-season is Styx @ GR 137 on the US server region. The worldwide clears includes all four regions (US/EU/AS/China).
Without paragon the time periods till they find such items will quite possibly be in years. So years without ever seeing an inch of progress. That might be fine for you but not for the majority of players and Blizz makes games for the majority not for the minority.
So if we both started playing on the same date. If I played for 6 hours a day and you for 3 hours a day. According to you we would be equal in power right. I wouldn’t have any advantages at all. That sir makes no sense at all and gives me a laugh.
Bots would still exist even without paragon. That is unless you say that no one bots for keys and bounties.
You can’t educate someone who is obtuse.
The top Necro beat GR 137 in 13m & 17second ; however, he is at paragon 10,045 (which is a statistical outlier, 5k and under is more reasonable and what blizzard agree'd on too)
Gadreel's paragon is 4,626 and beat GR 127 in 14m 14.4 seconds.
Here is the link for the disbelievers.
https://us.diablo3.com/en/rankings/era/12/rift-necromancer
This is not exactly true. If someone played more they would have better gear, resulting in more power.
I like to use a golf analogy. Paragon is like practicing more. With more practice, you should get more skill and in diablo 3 better gear. Paragon power is equivalent to saying that those who practice more get to play from the shorter tee box as paragon confers more offense and defense. Competitive golf is played on the same course using the same tees. There may be difference in your golf clubs but you do not get to play a “shorter” golf course.
Yup. Bad game design. Bad game mechanics. Neither the original Diablo, or Diablo 2 had such bad mechanics embedded into character builds.
Exactly - playing more (time wise) should NOT give you more “power”. In both Diablo and Diablo 2, you put more hours into the game to better your chances of getting that sweet and elusive LOOT. That was your reward. 10 years it took me to get a legit OROZ in the original Diablo. 10 years. Did I regret playing the original Diablo on and off for Ten years? nope.
Solo players are heavily discriminated against when it comes to gaining paragon. Paragon is used to abuse the power system by group players for “solo” runs. Imagine if there was a 400m sprint race, and everyone had just the One runner for the entire 400m distance, other than 1 runner, who could have 4 runners over the 400m, each doing 100m sprint. This is what effectively happens with "solo’ runs now. And this is directly because of paragons.
Player A has 4k paragon and does a 121 clear with his or her impale DH. I do the same clear, give or take a few seconds difference, with p1200. Which player has more skill? Which player is far more deserving of ranking on the LBs because of SKILL.
Blizzard - have a season of paragon where paragon is capped at say, p1200. See what happens then - all these hot shot players will rank lower because without the paragon abuse, they are forced to rely on their skills, and their skills are mostly sub-standard.
Many will defend the paragon system because they are abusing it, and they know that they’re abusing it, and they don’t want to lose that “power”. They don’t want to compete on skill.
So what your really saying is you only want the current endless paragon system!
Progress is progress and Primals are just that. You get a primal every 5 - 8 hours or so, some faster, some longer, but that’s the average (based on my experience). If your character is maxed out, move onto the next character. If you have maxed out all the characters with primal, then play seasons! where you can start over every season for faster progress!
If what you say is true, then those players who just need to see progress would be happy if blizzard just let the paragon numbers rise, without providing any main stat correct?
Since this thread is being derailed by Paragon conversations, I created another one to have a serious discussion about it here.
Well at least the necro gets to beat 150 in group of 4 in the current PTR, thanks to the S20 seasonal buff. The DH gets really nothing…
Your data does not reflect the current situation. Crusaders are the top solo GR clearing class in the current era and not wizards.
Do you admit that I, MicroRNA, is right and you are wrong given the screenshots and/or liink that I and others have provided you?
Also, you claim that necros are still viable in 4 man speed runs. Using that logic, than why did you support buffs to brabaraians that were part of both 4 man speed runs as well as 4 man meta push?
The top necromancer clears in the current non-season is GR 137 and not GR 143 as you have falsely claimed. Necromancers and DH should be buffed.
I supported buffs over and aver and over and over again to both monks and barbarians prior to patch 2.6.7. They deserved buffs that they received in patch 2.6.7 to improve their solo DPS. We can argue about whether the barb buffs were too much as now there are more barbs in non-season in era 12 that have soloed GR 142 or above than the number of wizards and necromancers COMBINED in era 11. Both wizards and thorns necromancers were nerfed in patch 2.6.7.
DH should definitely be buffed. But for necros I am not sure any more. Have you seen this?
Never wrote about Wizards.
Are you sure?
So what are you now claiming?
Is the top solo class in the current non-season crusaders with GR 150 solo clears?
Is the top solo necromancer clear in the current non-season a GR 137?